Richard Rohr’s explanation of the Trinity

[Earth Wind and Fire]

There are two ways to go about this. I can show you what I would do or you can show me what you would do and where you're stuck and I can help you get unstuck. Which would you prefer?

First I’m not stuck, I’m a Radical Christian who follows the Primitive Baptist community and its very liberating… they are entirely devoted to scripture and that’s rare these days.

My questions are more directed with understanding your thinking process… that’s all.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

It's very unfortunate really, because mystics have so much to offer the church. The progressive churches are so married to their leftwing political ideology and the conservative churches are so married to their strict doctrinal thinking that people like me have a difficult time finding our role. Many of us go to our graves never having truly contributed to the Body of Christ using our unique gifts. I think two hundred years from now things will be very different.

Well progressives have no core beliefs, at least I’ve not been able to find any… so they attempt to stimulate themselves with avant-garde contrivances while most conservative are married to doctrine. Now a Radical Christian digs to the truth I.e., the root cause behind Gods Great Plan and that takes work to search for truth and meaning.

I don’t know where you are heading however on this particular form your apt to get many different traditions coalescing in order to find truth in scripture… and many are indeed stuck in their precious doctrines. However there are times that heated controversy and debate sharpen those who dialog. As long as you see value in that, that everyone’s opinion might be valuable, then you can thrive here.

 

[Christina1]

So how does the RCC evaluate that?

I don't know. I'm not Catholic. I've been doing my own thing.

 

[Christina1]

There are branches that are contemplatives like the Monks (see any group), then there are the Eastern Christian’s. I’ve family who go to Greek & Orthodox churches who are contemplative. They are true mystics.

I only just recently learned about this. I was under the impression for many years that they were just another branch or kind of Catholicism. I want to look into them a little bit more.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Needless to say I disagree with gotquestions.org. They have a very limited view of what Christianity is.

Yes. Panentheism is monotheism plus pantheism.

Pantheism is basically spiritualized atheism/materialism that claims God is equivalent to the physical universe and that the universe is equivalent to God. While true, pantheism does not go deep enough into the true nature of God.

Monotheism is belief in one God in the form of a supreme being. While it's true that God is one, this limits the variety of manifest forms that God can take if God so chooses.

I would argue that neither monotheism nor pantheism alone is sufficient for the Christian. And where there is a need our loving God provides a solution: enter panentheism.

I find it extremely strange that so many Christians are opposed to a panentheistic theology, precisely because the Trinitarian doctrine that so many of our brethren adhere to flourishes best in such a theology.

There is a zero percent chance of me ever believing in the Trinity if I was a pantheist or a monotheist.

But if our God is a panentheistic God, then all things are possible. God is truly free and limitless in such a theology. So, if I was to argue for the Trinity then I would build that doctrine on the theological foundation of panentheism. And then I would scour through the Bible for any reference about the nature of God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit.

Without panentheism, you don't have any ground for the Trinity.

You use he word equivalent as in God is equivalent to the universe. I don’t see it that way. I see God as the Creator of all things therefore there is no equal. You also mentioned atheism in the same breath… that’s confusing because practicing it is to not believe… bottom line is Christian’s gotta believe in Christ and the godhead, A Trinity explanation that I personally find described throughout the Bible. Therefore I cling to Scripture for understanding and guidance.

 

[Christina1]

First I’m not stuck, I’m a Radical Christian who follows the Primitive Baptist community and its very liberating… they are entirely devoted to scripture and that’s rare these days.

My questions are more directed with understanding your thinking process… that’s all.

No... You're not primitive. If you were primitive then you wouldn't be using technology to communicate with me and you would probably be Amish.

Actually, Baptists have a lot to offer the Body of Christ. Your people are incredibly committed to applying the Bible to your lives in ways that defy the culture of our day. The preaching is some of the most powerful and passionate I've ever heard. Baptists really seek to apply what the Bible says to their lives. It's really cool.

Okay, so you're not stuck. You're seeking to understand my thinking process. Very good. Yeah, we could go about it either way because either way you'll understand more about how I think about things. It's up to you.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I only just recently learned about this. I was under the impression for many years that they were just another branch or kind of Catholicism. I want to look into them a little bit more.

I like the Benedictines as a religious order, they are very spiritual but I’m not cracked up on ROMAN Catholicism as a whole … many traditions I take issue with. A religious retreat can be found and attended might provide a window of understanding

 

[Christina1]

You use he word equivalent as in God is equivalent to the universe. I don’t see it that way. I see God as the Creator of all things therefore there is no equal. You also mentioned atheism in the same breath… that’s confusing because practicing it is to not believe… bottom line is Christian’s gotta believe in Christ and the godhead, A Trinity explanation that I personally find described throughout the Bible. Therefore I cling to Scripture for understanding and guidance.

Correct. Pantheism is only true up to a certain point and then you hit the logical brick wall where the Creator is the creation and the creation is the Creator but it is logically necessary for the Creator to have a deeper story than the creation because the Creator is the one who created the creation. So... Yeah. That's why pantheism doesn't work.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

No... You're not primitive. If you were primitive then you wouldn't be using technology to communicate with me and you would probably be Amish.

Actually, Baptists have a lot to offer the Body of Christ. Your people are incredibly committed to applying the Bible to your lives in ways that defy the culture of our day. The preaching is some of the most powerful and passionate I've ever heard. Baptists really seek to apply what the Bible says to their lives. It's really cool.

Okay, so you're not stuck. You're seeking to understand my thinking process. Very good. Yeah, we could go about it either way because either way you'll understand more about how I think about things. It's up to you.

We apply the word “Primitive” to Original. We also practice a bit differently than modern Baptist churches. Some may say we are peculiar but I say we think outa the box.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Correct. Pantheism is only true up to a certain point and then you hit the logical brick wall where the Creator is the creation and the creation is the Creator but it is logically necessary for the Creator to have a deeper story than the creation because the Creator is the one who created the creation. So... Yeah. That's why pantheism doesn't work.

Interesting

 

[Christina1]

Correct. Pantheism is only true up to a certain point and then you hit the logical brick wall where the Creator is the creation and the creation is the Creator but it is logically necessary for the Creator to have a deeper story than the creation because the Creator is the one who created the creation. So... Yeah. That's why pantheism doesn't work.

The difference between the two of them is this:

Pantheism says: The Creator = The creation

Panentheism says: The Creator > and = The creation

Imagine a venn diagram where one circle fits entirely inside a bigger circle. The small circle is the creation. The big one is God.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

My phone needs power… gotta go now. Have a good day

 

[Christina1]

My phone needs power… gotta go now. Have a good day

I need sleep anyway. Night

 

[Walter]

I like the Benedictines as a religious order, they are very spiritual but I’m not cracked up on ROMAN Catholicism as a whole … many traditions I take issue with. A religious retreat can be found and attended might provide a window of understanding

There are orders of Benedictines outside of The Catholic Church. There are Anglican Benedictines and Lutheran Benedictines I know of that have marvelous retreat centers.

This a Lutheran Benedictine retreat house: Home - Saint Augustine's House
This one is Anglican: Holy Cross Monastery

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Yes this takes me back to St. Paul’s Abby in Newton NJ where they used to have retreat’s, AA meetings, grew Christmas trees etc. it was a place of spirituality and peace…. I miss it.

BTW… it’s up for sale if you want to buy it!

Plan to turn Sussex County landmark abbey into affordable housing is underway

 

[tyndale1946]

EWF... I don't need to explain it, scripture already has... Brother Glen

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

That's thinking out of the box!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

EWF... I don't need to explain it, scripture already has... Brother Glen

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

That's thinking out of the box!

No that’s scripture, plain & simple

 

[tyndale1946]

No that’s scripture, plain & simple

That may be true for you and me but for some its not that simple... Why question it?... Just believe it!... Brother Glen

 

[SavedByGrace]

This is a bit long but I posted it as a different point of view thing. Perhaps we could even view it then discuss it maybe.

Any teaching that denies/rejects the Biblical Doctrine of the Trinity, of Three Distinct, coequal Persons, the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, in One Eternal Godhead or Divine Nature, is totally heretical and teachings from the devil himself.

I have many postings on BB to show that beyond any doubt, the God of the Bible is as I have described above, which is from Genesis to Revelation.

I will also make this bold statement, that anyone who does not believe this, will not be in heaven. it is SO SERIOUS.

We will expect in these Last Times, that many will try to distort what the Bible clearly teaches, and, sadly, the devil is using many "christians" to push his damnable heresies!

This should WARN people to REJECT the teachings of this HERETIC!

The Trinity Can Only Be Experienced

BE WARNED

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

EWF... I don't need to explain it, scripture already has... Brother Glen

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

That's thinking out of the box!

Fascinating! Are there any that would dispute this?