There Are Only Nine Commandments

[CJP69]

I never seen such a collection of Christians so bent over backward to avoid the plain reading of scripture in my entire life.

What possible motive anyone could have for arguing with Moses himself about the number of commandments, I cannot even begin to guess about!

One thing's for sure, it isn't worth my time to even discuss. You guys go on believing whatever you want and just ignore the bible all you like. I won't be granting you the validity that the sanction of my time implies any longer.

 

[CJP69]

If all we need to do is accept the gift, what is the reason for God to credit our faith as righteousness?

False dichotomy.

Accepting the gift is our act of faith!

 

[Christina1]

I never seen such a collection of Christians so bent over backward to avoid the plain reading of scripture in my entire life.

What possible motive anyone could have for arguing with Moses himself about the number of commandments, I cannot even begin to guess about!

One thing's for sure, it isn't worth my time to even discuss. You guys go on believing whatever you want and just ignore the bible all you like. I won't be granting you the validity that the sanction of my time implies any longer.

What are you talking about? Read through the thread. We all have our noses in the Bible over here. The issue is depending on how one reads the Commandments one can make several different cases as to how to divide and number those 17 verses in Exodus 20.
My original case was for there being only 9.
One can make a case for 10, three different ways.
If you separate them as much as possible, we can even go so far as to make a case for 11 or 12.

It was something interesting that I noticed a few months ago. And there's a lot of diversity of thought just on exactly what they are.

 

[percho]

If anyone is interested in what the Bible says about how many commandments that God gave to Moses - it's 10.

EXODUS 34:28 = "And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments."

I cited the KIng James, but I checked quite a few versions. They all say that there are TEN commandments.

Also

Deu 4:13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

 

[percho]

Yes, you should receive the benefit of the doubt. Ten what, commands or statements? I showed eleven commands.

Rom 9:20 first sentence, Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God?

Exodus 34:28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

Deuteronomy 4:13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Deuteronomy 10:4 And He wrote on the tablets according to the first writing, the Ten Commandments, which the Lord had spoken to you in the mountain from the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly; and the Lord gave them to me.

 

[percho]

@Van

I admit, I am stirring the pot.

 

[CJP69]

What are you talking about? Read through the thread. We all have our noses in the Bible over here. The issue is depending on how one reads the Commandments one can make several different cases as to how to divide and number those 17 verses in Exodus 20.
My original case was for there being only 9.
One can make a case for 10, three different ways.
If you separate them as much as possible, we can even go so far as to make a case for 11 or 12.

It was something interesting that I noticed a few months ago. And there's a lot of diversity of thought just on exactly what they are.

You have your noses in the bible until you get to something that openly, blatantly, directly and irrefutably contradicts your position and then all bets are off!

If someone thinks they they only see 9 commandments or that they see 11 or any number other then ten, they are flatly wrong - period. It isn't because of tradition or because of any sort of doctrine but because the same guy who wrote the book that you read the commandment in also states explicitly that there are ten of them in the exact same book!

It's flat out insanity to suggest seriously that there were anything other than ten commandments that Moses came down that mountain with and I won't entertain the subject as though it were anything else.

 

[Christina1]

You have your noses in the bible until you get to something that openly, blatantly, directly and irrefutably contradicts your position and then all bets are off!

If someone thinks they they only see 9 commandments or that they see 11 or any number other then ten, they are flatly wrong - period. It isn't because of tradition or because of any sort of doctrine but because the same guy who wrote the book that you read the commandment in also states explicitly that there are ten of them in the exact same book!

It's flat out insanity to suggest seriously that there were anything other than ten commandments that Moses came down that mountain with and I won't entertain the subject as though it were anything else.

Okay, well, since you feel so strongly about it, why don't you tell us how you get to ten? Which verses do you combine together and/or which verses do you separate out?

 

[kyredneck]

The sabbath was for Israel. It isn’t repeated in the New Testament.

Yes it is. Hebrews 4:9

 

[Van]

False dichotomy.

Accepting the gift is our act of faith!

Your answer offers an actual false dichotomy! Consider that we accept the gift by putting our faith in Christ. If so, what is the reason for God to credit our faith in Christ as righteousness?

 

[Van]

Rom 9:20 first sentence, Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God?

Exodus 34:28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

Deuteronomy 4:13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Deuteronomy 10:4 And He wrote on the tablets according to the first writing, the Ten Commandments, which the Lord had spoken to you in the mountain from the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly; and the Lord gave them to me.

Does scripture say "commandments" or "statements" - "dabar?"

 

[Van]

@Van

I admit, I am stirring the pot.

No need to stir the pot, the issue is: Does God's word say ten commandments or ten statements. If we can understand it says statements, then they might address more than one command.

 

[Van]

The phrase "ten commandments" appears 3 times in the Old Testament, but rather than "misva" (H4687) which usually is translated commandments (over 170 times) we find "dabar" which is usually translated word or words.

The idea is a reference to the ten "words = statements" contained on the stone tablets. See Exodus 34:1, Deuteronomy 4:10, Deuteronomy 9:10, and Deuteronomy 10:2.

 

[CJP69]

Okay, well, since you feel so strongly about it, why don't you tell us how you get to ten? Which verses do you combine together and/or which verses do you separate out?

It isn't the number of commandments that I feel so strongly about, it's one's willingness to submit themselves to scripture instead of suggesting that Moses (and, by implication, God) can't count that I have a problem with.

Had someone responded to the quoting the passages in Exodus and Deuteronomy with the respect they deserve and asked how they are reconciled with Exodus 20, then your question might be worth answering. As it is and as I said, I will not grant to such a discussion the sanction of my time - except to point out the ridiculousness of it's premise.

 

[CJP69]

Your answer offers an actual false dichotomy!

Saying it doesn't make it so.

Consider that we accept the gift by putting our faith in Christ. If so, what is the reason for God to credit our faith in Christ as righteousness?

I do not know. We are not told the answer to this question. I have no doubt that there is a reason but I do not need to know what that reason is in order to accept God at His word that it is so.

Romans 4:5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:​

 

[Christina1]

No need to stir the pot, the issue is: Does God's word say ten commandments or ten statements. If we can understand it says statements, then they might address more than one command.

Yeah, that's a good way to approach it, too. Jon brought that up earlier in the thread. It's on page one, I think. We were talking about that. I don't know Hebrew though. This is almost getting into Biblical scholar territory.

 

[Christina1]

It isn't the number of commandments that I feel so strongly about, it's one's willingness to submit themselves to scripture instead of suggesting that Moses (and, by implication, God) can't count that I have a problem with.

Had someone responded to the quoting the passages in Exodus and Deuteronomy with the respect they deserve and asked how they are reconciled with Exodus 20, then your question might be worth answering. As it is and as I said, I will not grant to such a discussion the sanction of my time - except to point out the ridiculousness of it's premise.

Why are you here if you don't want to have a conversation. Like, why are you bringing down the vibe with your haughty self-righteous attitude? If you're not having fun here find another thread. You're wasting your time, my time, and everybody else's time. We're just having a conversation about the commandments. If you don't like it, too bad. What's your endgame? Why are you trying to make us feel bad about talking about the Bible? This is a Christian website! Get over yourself! Yes, we know the Bible says "ten". But we also know how to count. So, this goes into a conversation about how many do you think there are and how do you get there? You want to stick with "ten" because that's what the Bible says? That's fine. Tell us how you get there. We're just talking about it. There's a lot to think about with this. There's the ten utterances thing, too. We haven't even begun to explore the verse 17 side of this. That would be more of a Catholic argument.

If you don't like the conversation then go away. Find another conversation that you can have a better time in.

 

[Van]

Saying it doesn't make it so Snip

In order to receive the gift through faith, the faith MUST be credited as righteousness by God. It is God who decides whether our faith is deeply rooted or superficial, and whether our commitment to Christ is full blown or just one among many competing priorities

 

[Van]

Yeah, that's a good way to approach it, too. Jon brought that up earlier in the thread. It's on page one, I think. We were talking about that. I don't know Hebrew though. This is almost getting into Biblical scholar territory.

You do not need to be a Hebrew scholar to use lexicons ( meanings of the Hebrew "dabar") and an exhaustive concordances (all the places where "commandments" appear in our translation.) See post #53

 

[CJP69]

Why are you here if you don't want to have a conversation.

I'm perfectly happy to have rationally sound conversation with Christians who aren't bent over backward trying to figure out ways to disagree with the clearest possible passages of scripture.

Like, why are you bringing down the vibe with your haughty self-righteous attitude?

Do you mean like what you are doing now?

If you're not having fun here find another thread.

That was my intention but people keep asking me questions.

You're wasting your time, my time, and everybody else's time.

No, I'm not. I'm standing up for the integrity of the writings of Moses himself! Anyone who wants to debate with Moses about how many commandments he came down the mountain with is the one wasting everyone's time. That's my entire point!

We're just having a conversation about the commandments. If you don't like it, too bad.

I don't remember who it was but someone here responded to several of us pointing out three different places where Moses himself records that there are ten commandments with a post that said he'd changed his mind and that instead of 9 there were 11.

He was, at the very least ignoring the scripture and at worst he was mocking it. It was at that point I was too flabbergasted at the hubris to continue with the discussion.

What's your endgame? Why are you trying to make us feel bad about talking about the Bible?

I'm doing the opposite. If I have an endgame, it is to get people to adopt a willingness to conform their beliefs to the plain reading of scripture.

This is a Christian website!

Well, it does claim to be.

Get over yourself! Yes, we know the Bible says "ten". But we also know how to count.

And your counting trumps the scriptures does it?

Here's a hint. If the bible says there's ten and your counting says there any other number than ten then your counting is wrong.

So, this goes into a conversation about how many do you think there are and how do you get there?

It is not a matter of opinion! There ARE ten - period. That is a statement of fact as testified to by the Divinely inspired writings of Moses!

You want to stick with "ten" because that's what the Bible says? That's fine.

It isn't merely "fine"! That's just the exact point! As you say, this is a Christian website! If the bible isn't authoritative enough for us to acknowledge that there are IN FACT ten commandments then just what does it mean to call ourselves "Christians"? If Moses can't count to ten and God is incapable of getting the correct number into the scripture then why do we believe that Christ ever even existed?

Tell us how you get there. We're just talking about it. There's a lot to think about with this. There's the ten utterances thing, too. We haven't even begun to explore the verse 17 side of this. That would be more of a Catholic argument.

It isn't the topic, it's the attitude toward the scripture that's the issue.

If you don't like the conversation then go away. Find another conversation that you can have a better time in.

As I said, that is precisely my intention but people keep dragging me back here because they think I'm such a mean guy for calling it out when someone is making fun of the scripture.