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Christ died for all man

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Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

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Earth Wind and Fire said:
Ahh,so you are not a base ball player so why answer the question with any degree of reason right. In order to hit the ball when you are in the batters box you must be coordinated & have great eye sight ( to follow the balls tagectory, and if you don't see it well then chances are grate you will wiff… try another game son. That’s what I told kids who tried out for my team cause I wanted to make sure they understood that it wasn’t personal but you don’t have what it takes to play baseball and win.

So just like in baseball , in the tryout stage where we coaches watch you to display hitting, fielding, running skills etc.

In your system of salvation there is always a chance to be saved ( like making the team ), there must also be a chance not to be saved (making the team). So I have a question for you, Does God work by "chance" or by "purpose"? Or in a coach… do I take a chance on this guy or is he capable with my coaching to become a productive team member? You see by now I’m thinking that Gods Plan of Salvation is based, not upon anything in man, but upon His own sovereign purpose and grace which was laid up in Christ (his batting coach) before the world began. But let’s cut to the chase shall we… As to the fairness of God's plan of salvation, we might state that all men have an equal chance to save themselves. If any will live completely above sin and keep every precept of the law, he then will have all the blessings of the law. The only trouble with this system is that salvation has never come by keeping the law; and beyond that, no man has yet been able to keep the law with the exception of the Man Christ Jesus. If man could save himself, God would not have sent His Son to pay the price of sin.
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So I don’t want to go overboard on this analogy but like a good coach, God (the Father, Son! Holy Ghost) chose his team to help defeat the powerful influences of Sin, Death & The Devil. He through election selected his team to insure success. Now if there is a walk on that can emulate Jesus then great but the game plan is to develop sinners into saints, and win the eternal life game, right. :Thumbsup
 
kyredneck

kyredneck

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Brightfame52 said:
Christ did die for all men, of His Sheep, from all nations, and with that, He redeemed them unto God by His dying for them Rev 5:9

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
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28 Take heed unto yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit hath made you bishops, to feed the church of the Lord which he purchased with his own blood. Acts 20
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Earth Wind and Fire said:
Ahh,so you are not a base ball player so why answer the question with any degree of reason right. In order to hit the ball when you are in the batters box you must be coordinated & have great eye sight ( to follow the balls tagectory, and if you don't see it well then chances are great you will wiff… try another game son. That’s what I told kids who tried out for my team cause I wanted to make sure they understood that it wasn’t personal but you don’t have what it takes to play baseball and win.

So just like in baseball , in the tryout stage where we coaches watch you to display hitting, fielding, running skills etc.

In your system of salvation there is always a chance to be saved ( like making the team ), there must also be a chance not to be saved (making the team). So I have a question for you, Does God work by "chance" or by "purpose"? Or in a coach… do I take a chance on this guy or is he capable with my coaching to become a productive team member? You see by now I’m thinking that Gods Plan of Salvation is based, not upon anything in man, but upon His own sovereign purpose and grace which was laid up in Christ (his batting coach) before the world began. But let’s cut to the chase shall we… As to the fairness of God's plan of salvation, we might state that all men have an equal chance to save themselves. If any will live completely above sin and keep every precept of the law, he then will have all the blessings of the law. The only trouble with this system is that salvation has never come by keeping the law; and beyond that, no man has yet been able to keep the law with the exception of the Man Christ Jesus. If man could save himself, God would not have sent His Son to pay the price of sin.
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All this rant for my two short comments. The Son didn't pay anything. He received the payment.
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

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37818 said:
Maybe. Isaiah 53:12, ". . . he hath poured out his soul unto death: . . ."

Leviticus 17:11, ". . . For the life{soul} of the flesh is in the blood: . . ."
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OK, let me repeat my earlier question to you, Does God work by "chance" or by "purpose"?
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
JonC said:
Your understanding of my position is partially correct. Christ's incarnation and death had an effect on all man (the saved and the lost) in that Judgment is, because of Christ's work, a Christ-centeted judgment. All judgment has been given to Him and all men are judged positionally on the basis of Christ.

But we are merely talking (thus far) of God's solidarity with mankind based in Christ and looking at His death.

Redemption is Christ - His incarnation, death, and resurrection.

We cannot reduce redemption to Christ dying. But His death was the climax of His incarnation.

I do not understand why you believe (if I understand you correctly) that Jesus dying for the sins of all men would mean that person is saved. If you can help me out here I'd appreciate it.
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simply put, is that the so called "Reformed/Calvinistic", THEORY of a limit on the Death of Jesus Christ, is due to a wrong understanding of what this means Biblically, and based on their "theology"

They argue in circles with the clear teachings of passages like John 3:16-16, where it says that God so loves the entire human race, with a SAVING LOVE; but, only those who will repent of their sins, and believe in Jesus Christ as their personal Saviour and Lord, will be saved. There are many other passages in both Testaments, that are clear to those with open minds, that God desires the unsaved wicked, as in Jonah and Ezekiel, to be saved, and not have to end up in eternal punishment.

This is clearly a spiritual blindness of their part!
 
V

Van

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Did Christ die for all those to be saved and all those never to be saved? Yes 2 Peter 2:1

Did His death provide the propitiation or means of reconciliation for the whole world, all humanity? Yes 1 John 2:2

Does His death provide actual, literal salvation for each and every person God gives (transfers into) Christ? Yes John 6:37

Pretty simple really
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
SavedByGrace said:
simply put, is that the so called "Reformed/Calvinistic", THEORY of a limit on the Death of Jesus Christ, is due to a wrong understanding of what this means Biblically, and based on their "theology"

They argue in circles with the clear teachings of passages like John 3:16-16, where it says that God so loves the entire human race, with a SAVING LOVE; but, only those who will repent of their sins, and believe in Jesus Christ as their personal Saviour and Lord, will be saved. There are many other passages in both Testaments, that are clear to those with open minds, that God desires the unsaved wicked, as in Jonah and Ezekiel, to be saved, and not have to end up in eternal punishment.

This is clearly a spiritual blindness of their part!
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Oh really, spiritual blindness you say…however you don’t understand that if God desires a person to be saved then they will be? Really, do you not understand that you are limiting God and at the same time badmouthing the brethren? Does God work by "chance" or by "purpose"?
 
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B

Brightfame52

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The Truth of the Gospel which we shouldn't be ashamed of, is that Christ died a penal substitutionary death exclusively for His Sheep to the exclusion of the goats. Jn 10:11,15,26

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

And this in the Gospel should be emphasized is a Saving Work, which is the Good News Of the Gospel !
 
B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Van said:
Did Christ die for all those to be saved and all those never to be saved? Yes 2 Peter 2:1

Did His death provide the propitiation or means of reconciliation for the whole world, all humanity? Yes 1 John 2:2

Does His death provide actual, literal salvation for each and every person God gives (transfers into) Christ? Yes John 6:37

Pretty simple really
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2 Pet 2:1 doesnt say Christ died for them, nor does it say He died for them who will never be saved, you are providing a false witness here friend. You should study 2 Pet 2:1, bringing up such a verse you should provide your study research to substantiate such a claim. To say Christ died for people who will never be saved is a serious statement against the Blood of Christ.
 
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Brightfame52

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To say Christ died for people who shall never be saved, how is that Good News ? Folks that demeaning to the Saving Efficacy of the Blood of Christ, which Blood purges our conscience from dead works unto serving the Living God, which is Salvation,,Heb 9:14

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
 
J

JD731

Well-Known Member
Brightfame52 said:

The Truth of the Gospel which we shouldn't be ashamed of, is that Christ died a penal substitutionary death exclusively for His Sheep to the exclusion of the goats. Jn 10:11,15,26

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

And this in the Gospel should be emphasized is a Saving Work, which is the Good News Of the Gospel !
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Responding to the statement I have underlined.

Do you feel at least a little foolish making a statement about the goats when the text you reference does not have any goats in it.? Does anyone reading your comments notice you have added to the text? Do they care? My guess is probably some, but not all.

There are no goats in the sheepfold. There are only sheep. Not all the sheep are of the fold of Jesus Christ, the shepherd. But they are all sheep. Those sheep whom the father has given him are his sheep now. The remaining sheep are the Father's. But they are all sheep!

The sheep are the the members of Abraham's family through Jacob, whose name was changed to Israel by God.

Here is what happened to the sheep before Jesus came.God is blaming the shepherds for the problem with his sheep.

Jeremiah 50:17

Jeremiah 50:6
My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.

Israel is a scattered sheep; the lions have driven him away: first the king of Assyria hath devoured him; and last this Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon hath broken his bones.

Ezekiel 34:2
Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?

Here is the good Shepherd of Israel, the Lord Jesus Christ;

The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.
2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever.

The Lord is not like those other shepherds of Israel, as you can see.

Mt 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Mt 10:1And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

The metaphors of God are precise. The metaphor for ones who are in the house (family) of Israel is "sheep." I challenge anyone to find in scripture where gentiles are named sheep. Paul the apostle of the Lord wrote 13 letters addressed to gentiles and explained the church that God is forming in this age after the cross and while Israel is scattered into all the nations, and he does not mention the gentiles as being sheep a single time in his books. Why? Because sheep is not the metaphor for gentiles. Dog is the metaphor for gentiles.

The ministry of God to gentiles is after the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, the savior of all men.

Mt 15:26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.

John 12:19 The Pharisees therefore said among themselves, Perceive ye how ye prevail nothing? behold, the world is gone after him.
20 And there were certain Greeks among them that came up to worship at the feast:
21 The same came therefore to Philip, which was of Bethsaida of Galilee, and desired him, saying, Sir, we would see Jesus.
22 Philip cometh and telleth Andrew: and again Andrew and Philip tell Jesus.
23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
26 If any man serve me, let him follow me (into death of himself); and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.
 
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