Featured Christ died for all man

From: John 1:10; "He was in the world,
and the world was made by Him", we see = the whole universe,
"and the world knew Him not."

So, however, Au contraire mon frère, this following is not the case:

...

I John 2:2;
"And He is the propitiation for our sins";
(who are Jesus’ sheep, believers, with "our" there
referring to those who are speaking, who are Elect Jews)

"and not for ours only",
(who are Jesus’ sheep, believers, with "ours" there
referring to those who are speaking, who are Elect Jews)

"but also" (Jesus is the propitiation)
"for the sins of the whole world."
(who are Jesus’ sheep, believers, with "the whole world" there
referring to the Elect Gentile nations of "the world".)

Very simple, and Biblical.

That is what I John 2:2 teaches.
...

 

But, then again, what actually does the "whole world" mean, for real?

"II. It is most manifest that the word "world",
used by the apostle John when speaking of redemption
and salvation by Christ, is always used in a limited
and restrained sense, and signifies some persons only,
and not all the individuals of human nature,

"as will appear from the consideration
of the several passages following,
as when the Baptist says (John 1:29),
"Behold the lamb of God,
which taketh away the sins of the world!"

"By "the world" cannot be meant every individual of mankind;
because it is not true, it is not fact, that;
"Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God, takes away the sin
or sins of every individual man",

"Since there are some who die in their sins,
whose: sins go beforehand to judgment,
and others they follow after,
for which they will be righteously and everlastingly condemned;

2. "This phrase in scripture, "of the whole world," in I John 2:2
unless where "the whole world",
signifies the whole universe, or habitable earth, ( as in John 1:10,
"and the world", = the whole universe, "was made by Him",),

"is always used in a limited and restrained sense;
meaning fewer people than all mankind,

"for example;

"a decree went out theft all "the world" should be taxed";
which was no other than the Roman empire,
and such countries as were subject to it.

"The faith of the church at Rome, was spoken of
throughout "the whole world", that is, throughout all the churches,
and among all the saints in "the world".

"All "the world" is said to become guilty before God by the law;"
which can be said of no more than were under that law,
and so not true of all mankind; who, though all guilty by the law of nature,
yet not by the law of Moses.

"The apostle tells the Colossians, that the gospel
was come into all "the world", and bringeth forth fruit;
which, can design only real saints and true believers,
in whom alone it brings forth fruit.

"An hour of temptation is spoken of,
which shall come upon all "the world",
to try them which dwell upon the earth;"
who can be no other than such who will then be in being,
and cannot be thought to include all the
individuals that have been in "the world".

"All the world wondered after the beast;"
and yet there were some
who did not receive his mark, nor worship him.

"Satan deceiveth "the whole world"; and yet it is certain,
that the elect cannot be deceived by him.

"The whole world" will be gathered together to the:
battle of the great day of God Almighty;
who are distinct from the saints, whom they will oppose
(Luke 2:1; Rom. 1:8; 3:19; Col. 1:6; Rev. 3:10; Rev. 12:9, 13:3).

"3. This phrase in the writings of the apostle John, in I John 2:2;
"And He is the propitiation for our sins;
and not for ours only,
but also for the sins of the whole world,"

"is used in a restrained sense,
and does not extend to every individual of human nature,
that has been, is, or shall be in the world,

"as it should be proved it does,
to conclude an argument from it in favor of universal redemption.

"Now it is used but in one place besides the text under consideration,
when it designs men, in all his writings, and that is in 1 John 5:19;

"And we know that we are of God, and "the whole world"
lieth in wickedness",

"where "the whole world" lying in wickedness",
is manifestly distinguished from the saints, who are of God,
and do not belong to the world;

"and consequently "the whole world"
is not to be understood by all the individuals in it.

"And it is easy to observe the like distinction in the text before us;

I John 2:2;
"And He is the propitiation for our sins;
and not for ours only,
but also for the sins of the whole world."

"for the sins of the whole world"
are opposed to "our sins", the sins of the apostle, who were Jews,
and others to whom Jesus joins Himself, in Salvation;

"who therefore belonged not to, nor were a part of the whole world,

"for whose sins, the Elect in the Gentile nation,
Christ was a propitiation, as for theirs, the apostles, who were Jews.

"That the whole world, for whom Christ is a propitiation,
cannot intend every man and woman that, has been, is,
or shall be in the world, appears from His being their propitiation;

"Who is "the world" of the Elect in the Gentile nation,
for whose sins He is a propitiation, their sins are atoned for
and pardoned, and their person:
justified from all sin, and so shall certainly be glorified;

"which is not true of the whole world,
taken in the large sense contended for.

"Besides, Christ is set forth to be a propitiation
through faith in His blood
(Rom. 3:25).

"The benefit of His propitiatory sacrifice,
is only received and enjoyed through faith;

"so that in the event, it appears that Christ is a propitiation
only for believers, a character which does not agree with all mankind.

"Add to this, that for whom Christ is a propitiation,
He is also an Advocate (v.1),
but He is not an Advocate for every individual in "the world";

"yea, there is a world He will not pray for,
and consequently, Jesus is no propitiation for.

4. For a better understanding of this sense of this text,
it should be observed,
that the apostle John was a Jew,
and writes to Jews,...and them chiefly, if not altogether,
who were distinguished from the Gentiles,
commonly called the world.

Now, says the apostle,
Jesus is a propitiation for our sins,
the sins of us Jews
and not for ours only, us Jews,

but also for the sins of the whole world,
the Gentiles.

Nothing is more common in the Jewish writings,
than to call the Gentiles aml[, the world;
and ~lw[ lk, the whole world;
and ~lw[x twmwa, the nations of the world;

hence the apostle Paul calls the Gentiles ko, smoj, "the world",
in Romans 11:12, 15.

THIS MEANS THAT THE BIBLE EQUATES
"THE WORLD" WITH "THE GENTILES".

...THEY...ARE...EQUALS...

IN Romans 11:12, 15;

"their transgression means riches for the world"
"their loss means riches for the Gentiles"

12; "But if their transgression means riches for the world,
and their loss means riches for the Gentiles,
how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!"

15; "For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world,
what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?"

con't

 

"It was a controversy agitated among the Jewish doctors,
whether when the Messiah came, the Gentiles, the world,
should have any benefit by him;..."

"When our Lord was discoursing with Nicodemus, one of their Rabbins,
Jesus lets him know that God so loved the world, the Gentiles,

"contrary to their rabbinical notions,
that He gave His Only Begotten Son,

"that whosoever of them that believeth on Him,
should not perish,

"as the Jews had concluded every one of the Gentiles should perish;

"but have everlasting life:

"and that God sent not his Son into the world,
to confound the world, the Gentiles, as the Jews imagined,

"but that the world of the Gentiles, also, through Him might be saved.

"When the Samaritans believed in Christ,
they declared Him to be the Savior of the world, the Gentiles,
and so of themselves, who were accounted by the Jews as Heathens;

"Christ sets forth Himself as the bread of life,
preferable to the manna, among other things,
from its extensive virtue to the world, the Gentiles:

"and here the apostle John says, that Christ
was not only the propitiation for the sins of the Jews,
but for the sins of the whole world, the Gentiles
(John 1:29; 3:16,17; 4:42; 6:33; 1 John 2:2)..."

"Blessed be God, we know Jesus' propitiation in His Blood is for us,
the nations of the world, THE GENTILES, WE GENTILES!,

THE PROPITIATION that was typified by the altar,
and is greater than THE ALTER, even the Lord Jesus Christ."

 

@Earth Wind and Fire your comment makes no since. But you do like to be the contrarian don't you.

When I quote scripture and someone {BF} says that is not what it means then they are in disagreement with the Holy Spirit not me. BF keeps denying scripture, ergo he {BF} thinks he knows better than the Holy Spirit. So he needs to tell the Holy Spirit he got it wrong.

Have to ask, do you not trust what the scriptures say? That is the mind and purpose of the Holy Spirit.

 

FIRST and foremost, I have long searched for a truely Christian church and have found it among the Primitive Baptists in theUSA. A Primitive Baptist is one who believes his church is the Church of Jesus Christ, endeavoring to attain at all times to the doctrines and practices of the true church as are outlined in the New Testament. We do not claim that we are perfect any more than any of the New Testament churches are perfect, but we do strive to teach only that which God's Word teaches and to practice only that which God's Word instructs us to practice. Since Jesus built only one church and since there can be only one true church today, we sincerely believe the Primitive Baptist Church to be a part of that one church. I trust that I have answered your question appropriately.

 

Isa_42:1 "Behold! My Servant whom I uphold, My Elect One in whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.

Only those that have trusted in God are elect and since you can not trust in God if you do not exist then you can not be elect.

So your view is an illogical unsubstantiated view BF.

 

1 John 5:19
We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.

Like 2.2 John her contrasts all believers from the whole world of the lost

It is clear that in both places in this Epistle John uses THE WHOLE WORLD in exactly the same way. Believers and the lost. And in 2.2 is very clear that Jesus Christ Died for every single one of the entire human race

 

Well first off I would say you have found a denomination {Primitive Baptists} that you can align with theologically. I agree with what you said but I am not a denominational type of guy. I have found that when one is in a denomination they tend to look at those that are not in that denomination with a skeptical eye.

I would not call myself a Primitive Baptist although I do believe that as a Baptist I hold to the God breathed word that the Apostles penned. As a Baptist I am just a disciple of Christ Jesus.

The church is the body of Christ composed of all those that believe in the risen Son of God.

As for did you answer my question? This one line did "endeavoring to attain at all times to the doctrines and practices of the true church as are outlined in the New Testament."

 

The church of Jesus Christ is called several different things such as house of God, family, the bride of Christ, the body of Christ but it is never referred to as sheep. You can check me out on this very easily.

Here are the only times "sheep" is mentioned post resurrection by the biblical authors.

Ac 8:32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:

This is a prophecy about the death of Jesus Christ, who had the temperament of a little lamb at his first coming. from Is 53.

Ro 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

This is the only time Paul, the apostle to gentiles, wrote the word and it was in the context about OT Jews.

Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

1Pe 2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

Peter wrote to "strangers" who are defined by the dispersion in 722 BC of the 10 tribe kingdom by the prophet Hosea and had a connection to the covenants of Israel through a natural birth but was considered gentiles by the fact they were strangers from their promised land and therefore cut off from those OT covenants until they eventually went back to their land. It would be profitable to read Deut 28 - 31 and note the Palestinian covenant in chapter 29, to which God swore to that he would keep his promises he gave in it to these people, just before they crossed over into the promised land under Joshua. Then read Hosea and the Jewish Christian epistles and Second Corinthians 3 and 4 and Galatians and accept that the author of these letters knew whom he was addressing. It will help your theology.

Re 18:13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

 

I’ve got to take my family somewhere where they practice Christianity, where we can learn from etc. I don’t want my grandkids not having fellowship and models to live by.

 

That is a commendable idea, not sure where that would be though. Canada has become so woke it is scary.

The wife and I just listen to some good bible teaching on the net as tired of hearing all the feel good preaching at our local church buildings.

Not sure if your old enough but do you remember the "Back to the bible " radio program? That was the style of preaching I am use to. The bible means what it says and says what it means.

I came across this today and it sums the bible up quite well


C.O.F.F.E.E.

Christ
Offers
Forgiveness
For
Everyone
Everywhere

 

LOL…. I was raised Roman Catholic so you would get two scripture readings ( one an OT reading then a NT reading at mass on Sunday… little else. So for me I had to gradually have to learn, mostly by self study… being a Primitive Baptist has afforded me much needed scriptural teaching as well as critical thinking mechanisms to develop. My great appreciation for the PB’S is how they raise their kids, the kids stick with them through service time, they get to hear what you here in service and then the parents and sometimes the grandparents are responsible for teaching the kids, raising them up so to speak in the scriptures. I further believe that’s why PB adults are so focused on scriptures… because it’s their model for child rearing and they are serious about it.

I was reminded recently by a cherished PB brother that, “cradle to grave, Jesus saves!”

 

but for the sins of the Elect among those within the Gentiles nations,
referred to as, "the whole world".

what a brazen TWISTING of the Word of God!!!

Don't you guys fear the Lord in what you keep on doing with His Word???

 

The problem we encounter is
when there is a contumely attitude towards God's Word,
which induces unbelief.

It's effectuation is the flesh.

That attitude toward His Word
directly affects the relationship with God.

When our insight from HIM
is reduced to the most superficial first fleshly impulse,
and remains moored in the unbudgeable,
something is brazenly twisted, for sure.

I John 2:2;
As Jewish Apostles (understood),
"...He is the propitiation for our sins;

and not for ours only, but also"
not exclusively for us, as Jews, (understood)

"for the sins of the whole world",
as in those remaining apart from us,
who are the Gentiles, in the world,
as we understand them to be called, Biblically,
and in the Jewish writings, etc. (understood).

This is what's called, "the Bible", as in "Divine Interpretation".

Nothing is more common in the Jewish writings,
than to call the Gentiles aml[, the world;
and ~lw[ lk, the whole world;
and ~lw[x twmwa, the nations of the world;

hence the apostle Paul calls the Gentiles ko, smoj, "the world",
in Romans 11:12, 15.

THIS MEANS THAT THE BIBLE EQUATES
the words "THE WORLD" WITH the words "THE GENTILES".

...THEY...ARE...EQUALS...

In Romans 11:12;

"their transgression means riches for the world"
=
"their loss means riches for the Gentiles"

12; "But if their transgression means riches for the world,
and their loss means riches for the Gentiles,
how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!"

"the world" = "the Gentiles".

So, that's what you call, "a brazen TWISTING of the Word of God!!!"?

Maybe there are some things I'm just not meant to understand.

 

who does this refer to?

"For God so loved the world"

 

Says nothing about Christ being Gods only elect.

 

Christ only died for believers, those believing in Him, because He saved them from their sins, even unbelief. Anyone not believing, and who never believes, He didnt die for them, impossible.

 

New thread: I John 2:1,2; Jesus' Advocacy and Penal Satisfaction are Both Effectual and Limited to the Elect.

 

From: John Calvin vs Calvinism

The Gentiles particularly, and God's elect among them, are meant;

"who are often called "the world", and "the whole world",
and "the nations of the world", as distinct from the Jews;

see Romans 11:12, compared with Matthew 6:32.

"The Jews had the same distinction we have now,
the church and the world;

"the former they took to themselves,
and the latter they gave to all the nations around:

"hence we often meet with this distinction, Israel,
and the nations of the world; on those words,

""let them bring forth their witness", that they may be justified, Isaiah 43:9
(say (b) the doctors) these are Israel; "or let them hear and say it is truth",
these are "the nations of the world".''

"Now, in opposition to such a notion, our Lord addresses this Jew;

"and it is as if he had said, you Rabbins say, that when the Messiah comes, only the Israelites, the peculiar favourites of God, shall share in the blessings that come by, and with him; and that the Gentiles shall reap no advantage by him, being hated of God, and rejected of him: but I tell you,

God has so loved the Gentiles, as well as the Jews,

"that he gave his only begotten Son; to, and for them, as well as for the Jews; to be a covenant of the people, the Gentiles, the Saviour of them, and a sacrifice for them; a gift which is a sufficient evidence of his love to them; it being a large and comprehensive one, an irreversible and unspeakable one;

"no other than his own Son by nature, of the same essence, perfections,
and glory with him;

"begotten by him in a way inconceivable and expressible by mortals;
and his only begotten one;

"the object of his love and delight, and in whom he is ever well pleased;

"and yet, such is his love to the Gentiles, as well as Jews, that he has given him, in human nature, up, into the hands of men, and of justice, and to death itself:

"that whosoever believeth in him, whether Jew or Gentile,

"should not perish, but have everlasting life; See Gill on John 3:15.

con't at: John Calvin vs Calvinism