Conversion?

[Brightfame52]

Well that explains a lot. You view is, well I am not sure what to call it. You view is so twisted it is not even close to scripture. The only time that we see Israel and elect in the same verse is here:

Isa_45:4 For Jacob My servant's sake, And Israel My elect, I have even called you by your name; I have named you, though you have not known Me.
Rom_11:7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Israel in both cases refers to the nation of Israel. In Isa 45:4 Israel is God's chosen nation through which He will bring salvation to the world.

In Rom 11:7 we see that God's chosen nation Israel has rejected the means of salvation, faith, and has held to the law as their means of salvation rather than trust in their Messiah, Christ Jesus,

Your "House of Israel is another name for the elect" is spurious and just shows how you will twist any scripture to have it fit your theological understanding.

I do not know where you are getting your misguided information from but it just leading you down the garden path to ruin. Your continued cherry picking verses taken out of context is a sure path to disaster.

It's also the Body of Christ

 

[Silverhair]

It's also the Body of Christ

Based on what? What man or group of men told you this. It is not biblical so who are you listening to?

Is this just another of your Hyper Cal ideas that have no basis in scripture? If it is based on scripture provide the cl;ear text that supports your view.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Google "hyper-Calvinism". It's a real and true sect of the reformed. It's not a pejorative.

One should seek out the context of the term in order to see it as a pejorative. In this case it was weaponized to spew hate and alienate the other BB contributor. That very action will cause division among the brethren.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Google "hyper-Calvinism". It's a real and true sect of the reformed. It's not a pejorative.

I would flesh that one out much more completely if I were you. Referencing Google as the quintessential expert on anything is not digging deep into the core. It’s cursory ie superficial.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Based on what? What man or group of men told you this. It is not biblical so who are you listening to?

Is this just another of your Hyper Cal ideas that have no basis in scripture? If it is based on scripture provide the cl;ear text that supports your view.

Wow, you’ve made it a point to alienate the brethren via your blatant term usage once again… and on purpose. Well that just reinforces my own understanding of certain peoples ignorance when communicating with others. Blatantly, it’s a complete breakdown in manners and civility.

 

[Brightfame52]

Based on what? What man or group of men told you this. It is not biblical so who are you listening to?

Is this just another of your Hyper Cal ideas that have no basis in scripture? If it is based on scripture provide the cl;ear text that supports your view.

Based on Christ

 

[Silverhair]

Wow, you’ve made it a point to alienate the brethren via your blatant term usage once again… and on purpose. Well that just reinforces my own understanding of certain peoples ignorance when communicating with others. Blatantly, it’s a complete breakdown in manners and civility.

Strange I did not see you making these kind of comments when I was called a Pelagian or a humanist numerous times. Your double standard is showing EFW.

The Hyper Cal views are dangerous and non-biblical.

I have asked BF a number of times if he considers God to be sovereign and he has yet to say whether he does or not. I understand why he will not say God is sovereign, it would logically undermine his Hyper Cal views.

For someone that does not like the use of the term Hyper Cal you have no problem referring to others comments as ignorance. You are being just a bit hypocritical there EFW.

 

[Silverhair]

Based on Christ

So you just ignore scripture again. You offer your opinion but nothing more. You twist or ignore scripture as it does not support your view. You really have no ground to stand on BF.

Isa_45:4 For Jacob My servant's sake, And Israel My elect, I have even called you by your name; I have named you, though you have not known Me.
Rom_11:7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Israel in both cases refers to the nation of Israel. In Isa 45:4 Israel is God's chosen nation through which He will bring salvation to the world.

In Rom 11:7 we see that God's chosen nation Israel has rejected the means of salvation, faith, and has held to the law as their means of salvation rather than trust in their Messiah, Christ Jesus,

Your "The House of Israel is another name for the elect" does not hold water BF that is unless you just mean the nation of Israel as we see in Isa 45:4 which as we see are the ones that rejected their Messiah Rom 11:7

 

[Brightfame52]

So you just ignore scripture again. You offer your opinion but nothing more. You twist or ignore scripture as it does not support your view. You really have no ground to stand on BF.

Isa_45:4 For Jacob My servant's sake, And Israel My elect, I have even called you by your name; I have named you, though you have not known Me.
Rom_11:7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Israel in both cases refers to the nation of Israel. In Isa 45:4 Israel is God's chosen nation through which He will bring salvation to the world.

In Rom 11:7 we see that God's chosen nation Israel has rejected the means of salvation, faith, and has held to the law as their means of salvation rather than trust in their Messiah, Christ Jesus,

Your "The House of Israel is another name for the elect" does not hold water BF that is unless you just mean the nation of Israel as we see in Isa 45:4 which as we see are the ones that rejected their Messiah Rom 11:7

C

So you just ignore scripture again. You offer your opinion but nothing more. You twist or ignore scripture as it does not support your view. You really have no ground to stand on BF.

Isa_45:4 For Jacob My servant's sake, And Israel My elect, I have even called you by your name; I have named you, though you have not known Me.
Rom_11:7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Israel in both cases refers to the nation of Israel. In Isa 45:4 Israel is God's chosen nation through which He will bring salvation to the world.

In Rom 11:7 we see that God's chosen nation Israel has rejected the means of salvation, faith, and has held to the law as their means of salvation rather than trust in their Messiah, Christ Jesus,

Your "The House of Israel is another name for the elect" does not hold water BF that is unless you just mean the nation of Israel as we see in Isa 45:4 which as we see are the ones that rejected their Messiah Rom 11:7

Christ obedience refers to His obedience unto death, and He died for His Body the Church Eph 5. and that made them righteous From 5:19

 

[Silverhair]

C

Christ obedience refers to His obedience unto death, and He died for His Body the Church Eph 5. and that made them righteous From 5:19

You continue to exhibit your selective use of scripture. Why do you ignore what does not fit your view BF?

I agree He died for His church but you seem to think that is all He died for and refuse to accept the biblical fact that He died for all people / the whole world.

Why is the BF? Do you not trust what the Holy Spirit inspired?

While His death made salvation possible for all it is only those that trust in the risen Son that will be saved.
1Co 15:17 If Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins.

Joh 3:17 Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

Heb 2:9 but we do see Jesus, who for a little while was made lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

1Jn 2:2 and he is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

1Ti 4:10 For to this end we toil and struggle, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.

 

[Brightfame52]

You continue to exhibit your selective use of scripture. Why do you ignore what does not fit your view BF?

I agree He died for His church but you seem to think that is all He died for and refuse to accept the biblical fact that He died for all people / the whole world.

Why is the BF? Do you not trust what the Holy Spirit inspired?

While His death made salvation possible for all it is only those that trust in the risen Son that will be saved.
1Co 15:17 If Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins.

Joh 3:17 Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

Heb 2:9 but we do see Jesus, who for a little while was made lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

1Jn 2:2 and he is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

1Ti 4:10 For to this end we toil and struggle, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.

It's scripture that is why. Christ obedience alone made many righteous, that is Salvation

 

[Silverhair]

It's scripture that is why. Christ obedience alone made many righteous, that is Salvation

Christ was obedient in going to the cross and His death covered the sins for all humanity so it made salvation possible for all men. Only those that freely trust in the risen Christ will be saved. That is salvation.

If Christ had not risen no one could be saved. That's biblical.

 

[Brightfame52]

Christ was obedient in going to the cross and His death covered the sins for all humanity so it made salvation possible for all men. Only those that freely trust in the risen Christ will be saved. That is salvation.

If Christ had not risen no one could be saved. That's biblical.

Made possible! That's false Christ obedience made many righteous not possiblely made them righteous.

 

[37818]

Made possible! That's false Christ obedience made many righteous not possiblely made them righteous.

1 John 2:2, . . . And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. . . .

1 John 5:9-13, If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

 

[Silverhair]

Made possible! That's false Christ obedience made many righteous not possiblely made them righteous.

So your Hyper Cal bible has different text in it I have to conclude.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the crucifixion of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who was elected before the foundation of the world, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.. Hyper Cal 101

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. NKJV

Did you notice the difference between what you teach and what the bible actually says.

BF you have shown over and over that you do not trust the Holy Spirit inspired Word of God. You will not even say if God is sovereign so why would anyone trust anything that you say. I am not sure who or what you are trusting in.

No one was made righteous at the cross but all were made able to be made righteous at the cross.

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

1Co 15:13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen.
1Co 15:14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty.

1Co 15:17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!

BF you have pinned your hopes on a dead Christ not the risen Christ, so you have no hope at all.

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
Rom 3:22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe.

 

[Brightfame52]

So your Hyper Cal bible has different text in it I have to conclude.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the crucifixion of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who was elected before the foundation of the world, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.. Hyper Cal 101

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. NKJV

Did you notice the difference between what you teach and what the bible actually says.

BF you have shown over and over that you do not trust the Holy Spirit inspired Word of God. You will not even say if God is sovereign so why would anyone trust anything that you say. I am not sure who or what you are trusting in.

No one was made righteous at the cross but all were made able to be made righteous at the cross.

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

1Co 15:13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen.
1Co 15:14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty.

1Co 15:17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!

BF you have pinned your hopes on a dead Christ not the risen Christ, so you have no hope at all.

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
Rom 3:22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe.

Scoffing doesn't help you, Jesus obedience makes people righteous Rom 5:19 you deny that you deny the Gospel Paul preached in Rom 5 which flows from Rom 1:16-17

 

[Silverhair]

Scoffing doesn't help you, Jesus obedience makes people righteous Rom 5:19 you deny that you deny the Gospel Paul preached in Rom 5 which flows from Rom 1:16-17

One is only made righteous when they are in Christ Jesus and that is only through faith which has to be in the risen Christ. By your logic one does not even have to believe in order to be considered righteous. So you have to wonder why the cross and why is faith necessary.

So you trust your little god that has led you to a false understanding of the Word of God. It seems you Hyper Cal's have a strange theology, one of your own making.

 

[Brightfame52]

One is only made righteous when they are in Christ Jesus and that is only through faith which has to be in the risen Christ. By your logic one does not even have to believe in order to be considered righteous. So you have to wonder why the cross and why is faith necessary.

So you trust your little god that has led you to a false understanding of the Word of God. It seems you Hyper Cal's have a strange theology, one of your own making.

One is made righteous when Christ died for them Rom 5:19

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Strange I did not see you making these kind of comments when I was called a Pelagian or a humanist numerous times. Your double standard is showing EFW.

The Hyper Cal views are dangerous and non-biblical.

I have asked BF a number of times if he considers God to be sovereign and he has yet to say whether he does or not. I understand why he will not say God is sovereign, it would logically undermine his Hyper Cal views.

For someone that does not like the use of the term Hyper Cal you have no problem referring to others comments as ignorance. You are being just a bit hypocritical there EFW.

Any derogatory term used to demean another’s belief system is unacceptable. Even the word hypocritical can be seen as an insult. In reality though I have been a hypocrite many times in my life and that’s perfectly acceptable to me if true… which it is. My darling wife just stunned me today by calling a certain group of people an ethnic name that I told her was a raciest remark. She countered with, yes well, I am a raciest to that particular group. Now she is the epitome of a truthful person & a raciest…. There is No hypocrisy with this woman.

 

[Scarlett O.]

MOD NOTE:

[1] Did Jesus Christ have to die for us to be saved? YES

• Genesis 3:15 = "I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.”

[2] Did Jesus Christ have to shed his blood for us to be saved? YES.

• Ephesians 1:7 ="In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,"

[3] Did Jesus Christ have to bodily resurrect for us to be saved? YES.

• 1 Corinthians 15:13-14 "But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain."

Just as God is a Triune God - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, salvation comes from the supernatural unity of Christ's death, shed blood, and resurrection.

PLEASE stop this incessant arguing.