Justification by Faith !

[kyredneck]

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

Faith is not of the creature, it is a fruit of the Spirit:

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Gal 5

...but not all men have faith:

2 and that we may be delivered from unreasonable and evil men; for all have not faith. 2 Thess 3

...because not all men have the Spirit:

14 Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged. 1 Cor 2

 

[Silverhair]

Faith is not of the creature, it is a fruit of the Spirit:

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Gal 5

...but not all men have faith:

2 and that we may be delivered from unreasonable and evil men; for all have not faith. 2 Thess 3

...because not all men have the Spirit:

14 Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged. 1 Cor 2

KY you just showed classic cherry picking by a calvinist.

Gal 5:22 is referring to believers that will get the gifts of the Spirit "love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control."
This verse does not refer to the faith that the person has when trusting in Christ Jesus for salvation.

2Th 3:2 Paul writing to believers asking for prayers so as to be delivered from unbelievers. This also does not have to do with faith unto salvation.

1Co 2:14 Again Paul writing to believers speaking of unbelievers, natural man, not receiving the gifts of the Spirit as we see listed in Gal 5:22-23.
And once again you have missed the mark. This verse does not refer to salvation faith.

KY you have just shown the real problem of calvinism, they have no biblical support. You have to twist out of context scripture in the hope that people will just accept what you say without actually checking what you have posted.

None of these texts lend any support to your contention that faith is not of the creature. You keep searching for a text that will support you but at the same time dismiss those that show you the biblical truth. Why is the KY?

Look at Eph 2:8-9 again, what do these verses tell us?
Salvation is by grace
Salvation is through faith
Salvation is not of yourselves
Salvation is the gift of God
Salvation is not of works

Paul is not about faith, but rather salvation through faith. Salvation is his main subject. Faith is mentioned because you cannot answer the question "How is a person saved?" without mentioning faith. A person is saved by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ (Act_16:31).

 

[Brightfame52]

@Silverhair

Faith is a choice made by the creature.

Thats False. Its Heb 11:1

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

 

[Craigbythesea]

Why don't you simply cite the word, Galatians 3:22, But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Galatians 3:22. But the scripture has imprisoned all things under the power of sin, so that what was promised through faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. (NRSV)

… given to those who believe!

Galatians 3:22. ἀλλὰ συνέκλεισεν ἡ γραφὴ τὰ πάντα ὑπὸ ἁμαρτίαν ἵνα ἡ ἐπαγγελία ἐκ πίστεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ δοθῇ τοῖς πιστεύουσιν. (SBLGNT)

Moreover, πιστεύω (believe) is the cognate verb of the noun πίστις (faith).

 

[Silverhair]

@Silverhair



Thats False. Its Heb 11:1

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

So you still dismiss scripture and stick to your calvinist philosophy. Perhaps some day God will give you eyes to see the truth.

Essentially faith is confidence that things yet future and unseen will happen as God has revealed they will.Faith is confidence in the trustworthiness of God. It is the conviction that what God says is true and that what He promises will come to pass. This is the basic nature of faith.

So BF what is the point you are trying to make. What's false in your view?

 

[37818]

ἡ ἐπαγγελία ἐκ πίστεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ

. . . promised out from faith [belonging to] of Jesus Christ . . .

… given to those who believe!

 

[Van]

Gal 3:24

Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified*by*faith.

Now what is it to be Justified by Faith? It's one or two things #1 Its to be Justified by His Faith/Faithfulness, meaning Jesus Christ, its the Faith of Jesus Christ. #2 It's when that Justification by Christ is declared or pronounced in the conscience of the already Justified.

It's never meaning that faith is a condition we must act in order to get Justified before God, cause that overthrows Justification before God based solely upon the Person and Work of Jesus Christ , what He did for the Justified. Then it becomes justification by our works, a false gospel!

The most straight forward rendering is "...justified on the basis of faith." The preposition "ek" means"out from or arising from" faith. And as the OP correctly notes, the question is whose faith, ours or Christ's faithfulness. The effort to present "Christ's faithfulness" in both of the OP options is bogus.

Are we justified because of our faith? No, of course not. We undergo the washing of regeneration to be "made righteous." Thus we are justified by receiving the reconciliation provided by Christ's faithfulness in the sacrifice of His life on the cross.

The question I have asked again and again is why does God credit as righteousness the faith of believers per Romans 4:23-25? I do not think any Calvinist has provided a sensible answer. Or why does 2 Thessalonians 2:13 say God chooses individuals for salvation through faith in the truth?

In summary we were justified on the basis of Christ's faithfulness.

 

[37818]

Faith is not of the creature, it is a fruit of the Spirit:

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Gal 5

...but not all men have faith:

2 and that we may be delivered from unreasonable and evil men; for all have not faith. 2 Thess 3

...because not all men have the Spirit:

14 Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged. 1 Cor 2

2 Thessalonians 3:2 . . . The Faith . . . .

 

[Craigbythesea]

. . . promised out from faith [belonging to] of Jesus Christ . . .

Craig Keener, in his recent (2019) 848-page commentary on the Greek text of Galatians recognizes no such a distortion of Paul’s teaching, and he translates Gal. 3:22 as,

“Instead, the Scripture has locked up everything under sin’s power, so that the promise might be given to those who have faith on the basis of faith in Jesus Christ.”

Ernest DeWitt Burton, the late Professor of New Testament Interpretation in the University of Chicago, in his commentary on Galatians in the I.C.C. series, recognizes no such a distortion of Paul’s teaching and translates the words ἵνα ἡ ἐπαγγελία ἐκ πίστεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ δοθῇ τοῖς πιστεύουσιν as, “that, on ground of faith in Jesus Christ, the promise might be given to those who believe.”

Herman Ridderbos and Hans Dieter Betz, in their commentaries on Galatians, are all of the same mind.

For an excellent discussion of this issue, please see the following:

"Faith IN Christ" or "Faithfulness OF Christ"

 

[Brightfame52]

How therefore should we understand a scripture like this one which seems to be saying that ones faith is counted for righteousness ? Rom 4:5

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Its quite simple Faith here is the object of his Faith, Christ. See Jesus Christ is the Believers Righteousness made so by God the Father 1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

Isa 54:17

No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord and their righteousness is of me, saith the Lord.

Jer 33:16

In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The Lord our righteousness.


The Lord being our righteousness is sooner or later made known to God given Faith, hence, The Lord our righteousness is the object of our Faith !

 

[Van]

How therefore should we understand a scripture like this one which seems to be saying that ones faith is counted for righteousness ? Rom 4:5

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Its quite simple Faith here is the object of his Faith, Christ. See Jesus Christ is the Believers Righteousness made so by God the Father 1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

Isa 54:17

No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord and their righteousness is of me, saith the Lord.

Jer 33:16

In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The Lord our righteousness.


The Lord being our righteousness is sooner or later made known to God given Faith, hence, The Lord our righteousness is the object of our Faith !

Once again we see a rewrite, Abraham's faith is transubstantiated into Christ. Good grief. Abraham believed in God and His promises. Christ was still a mystery.

Once we are transferred into Christ spiritually, Christ becomes our source of wisdom (through our indwelt Helper) our righteousness (we are made righteous in Christ by the washing of regeneration) our sanctification, as in Christ we undergo progressive sanctification, having been freed from the penalty of sin by our rebirth in Christ. And of course, to be transferred into Christ is our redemption from the consequence of sin. Therefore of course our righteousness if of the LORD.

No verse says "God given faith" but "his faith" my faith, your faith is found everywhere.

 

[Brightfame52]

Once again we see a rewrite, Abraham's faith is transubstantiated into Christ. Good grief. Abraham believed in God and His promises. Christ was still a mystery.

Once we are transferred into Christ spiritually, Christ becomes our source of wisdom (through our indwelt Helper) our righteousness (we are made righteous in Christ by the washing of regeneration) our sanctification, as in Christ we undergo progressive sanctification, having been freed from the penalty of sin by our rebirth in Christ. And of course, to be transferred into Christ is our redemption from the consequence of sin. Therefore of course our righteousness if of the LORD.

No verse says "God given faith" but "his faith" my faith, your faith is found everywhere.

You still dont understand do you ? I took time to explain it to you. Its Christ the object of Faith that Justifies. He is the righteousness, not a persons faith

 

[Silverhair]

BF that is what many on here have been trying to make you understand. It is not man's faith that saves him but he is saved by God because of his faith in the faithful one {Christ Jesus} Read vs 5 in it's context Rom 4:2-6 and read Rom 3:21-26. These give a clear picture of salvation through faith/trusting in Christ.

 

[Brightfame52]

BF that is what many on here have been trying to make you understand. It is not man's faith that saves him but he is saved by God because of his faith in the faithful one {Christ Jesus} Read vs 5 in it's context Rom 4:2-6 and read Rom 3:21-26. These give a clear picture of salvation through faith/trusting in Christ.

You still dont understand do you ? I took time to explain it to you. Its Christ the object of Faith that Justifies. He is the righteousness, not a persons faith

 

[Craigbythesea]

Okie Dokie. Let me be clear for you: Do I believe that the Bible teaches that God has ordained EVERYTHING that has and that will take place over time?


I tell you - emphatically -

It is extremely awful to paint a picture of God in which He is no better than the devil himself.

 

[Silverhair]

You still dont understand do you ? I took time to explain it to you. Its Christ the object of Faith that Justifies. He is the righteousness, not a persons faith

BF what do I not understand? Did you miss my words "BF that is what many on here have been trying to make you understand. It is not man's faith that saves him but he is saved by God because of his faith in the faithful one {Christ Jesus}"

BF you finally seem to be getting it, you have finally come to realize that the person has to have a personal faith in Christ before God will, in His grace, save them.

It seems you actually did read Rom 4:2-6 and Rom 3:21-26 as I suggested. They make it clear that one is only saved through faith in the faithful one.

 

[Brightfame52]

What Justification by Faith really is !

First of all, Justification by Faith cant apply to #1. The unregenerate, because Faith is a Spiritual Fruit 5:22

22 the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith

Now, man may have faith which is the fruit of the flesh, a natural human faith, but that has nothing to do with Justification.

#2. Justification by Faith cant apply to the unjustified, in other words, one must already be Justified before God before they can be Justified by Faith.

Justification by Faith is when one who has been Justified by the Blood of Christ alone and before God based on Christ's Blood Rom 5:9 when they receive a conscience assurance of it by Faith the fruit of the Spirit.

Faith justifies the conscience with the spiritual knowledge of the imputed righteousness of Christ . God purifies our hearts by Faith Acts 15:8-9

8And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

The word heart here does include the conscience, for its the word kardia and means:

lit: the heart; mind, character, inner self, will, intention, center.

kardía – heart; "the affective center of our being" and the capacity of moral preference


Faith gives us assurance of our Justification as in the full assurance of Faith Heb 10:22

Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Justification by Faith Rom 5:1 is again conscience Justification, wherein the conscience is given to know the peace it has with God, and so its the peace of believing Rom 15:13

Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

 

[Silverhair]

What Justification by Faith really is !

First of all, Justification by Faith cant apply to #1. The unregenerate, because Faith is a Spiritual Fruit 5:22

22 the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith

Now, man may have faith which is the fruit of the flesh, a natural human faith, but that has nothing to do with Justification.

#2. Justification by Faith cant apply to the unjustified, in other words, one must already be Justified before God before they can be Justified by Faith.

Justification by Faith is when one who has been Justified by the Blood of Christ alone and before God based on Christ's Blood Rom 5:9 when they receive a conscience assurance of it by Faith the fruit of the Spirit.

Faith justifies the conscience with the spiritual knowledge of the imputed righteousness of Christ . God purifies our hearts by Faith Acts 15:8-9

8And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

The word heart here does include the conscience, for its the word kardia and means:

lit: the heart; mind, character, inner self, will, intention, center.

kardía – heart; "the affective center of our being" and the capacity of moral preference


Faith gives us assurance of our Justification as in the full assurance of Faith Heb 10:22

Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Justification by Faith Rom 5:1 is again conscience Justification, wherein the conscience is given to know the peace it has with God, and so its the peace of believing Rom 15:13

Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

@Brightfame52 these verses alone show that you view is incorrect

Rom_3:30 since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.
Gal_3:8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU."
Rom_3:26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

 

[Brightfame52]

@Brightfame52 these verses alone show that you view is incorrect

Rom_3:30 since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.
Gal_3:8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU."
Rom_3:26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Im afraid you cant understand the Truth of my post. I cant give you understanding, that's Gods specialty.

 

[Van]

You still dont understand do you ? I took time to explain it to you. Its Christ the object of Faith that Justifies. He is the righteousness, not a persons faith

Your post describes yourself. I presented the view you just did. Here is the quote: "In summary we were justified on the basis of Christ's faithfulness."