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Featured How are the lost "drawn" to Christ?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Mar 5, 2024.

  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    In the Old Testament, God says he draws by "hesed" translated as lovingkindness or steadfast love. Our human response to seeing or becoming aware that God has demonstrated His love for us is to be attracted to God. Jeremiah 31:3. Clearly attraction rather than compulsion is in view in this Old Testament verse.

    In the New Testament, we are drawn (attracted) by seeing or becoming aware that God demonstrated His love for us by dying for us when we were yet sinners. Romans 5:8. We love Him because He first loved us.1 John 4:19. Clearly attraction rather than compulsion is in view in these New Testament verses.

    John 6:44
    “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

    Here come to Me refers contextually to coming to believe in Christ as Savior and Lord, see the next verse where "everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me."

    John 12:32
    “And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to Myself.”

    Here "people" has been supplied as the group "all" (pas) refers to, but actually the idea is all those who become aware of Christ sacrificing His life for humanity will be attracted by His demonstration of love for them. Again our human response to the Father's revealed "Lamb of God" is the inward power that attracts us to Christ.

    Isaiah 54:13 NASB
    “All your sons will be [fn] taught by the LORD;
    And the well-being of your sons will be great.
    _________________
    Footnote: or "disciples of the LORD."

    In the NASB, when we see Lord in all caps, LORD is used to translate a shortened form of Yahweh. To be a disciple of God indicates not only a person striving to learn the Lord's instructions, but moreover, striving to become like the Lord, or refers to our efforts to become "Christ-like."

    Thus, John 6:45 NASB
    “It is written in the Prophets: ‘AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.
    refers to Isaiah 54:13, and presents the idea that the person has a heart-felt desire and deep-seat commitment to trust in Christ as their savior and to follow Christ as their Lord and Master. And this inner zeal demonstrates they have been drawn by God's sacrificial love.
     
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  2. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    John 6:44 is not speaking to all the lost world. Context is King

    Rom 10:13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
    Rom 10:14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?
    Rom 10:15 And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!”
    Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?”
    Rom 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.
     
  3. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    I agree context is king and for those that actually hear the gospel message they have to make a choice to receive or reject Christ. But that is not the only way that God speaks to people and draws them.

    We have creation
    Psa 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; And the firmament shows His handiwork.
    Psa 19:2 Day unto day utters speech, And night unto night reveals knowledge.
    Psa 19:3 There is no speech nor language Where their voice is not heard.
    Psa 19:4 Their line has gone out through all the earth, And their words to the end of the world.

    We also have the conviction of the Holy Spirit
    Joh 16:8 "And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
    Joh 16:9 "of sin, because they do not believe in Me;
    Joh 16:10 "of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more;
    Joh 16:11 "of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.
     
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Obviously John 6:44 is speaking to "all of the lost." No one can come refers to everyone with the potential of believing in Christ because God utilizes our faith in the truth to elect individuals for salvation, 2 Thessalonians 2:13. Election for salvation before having their faith credited as righteousness is just another Calvinist myth based on not understanding Ephesians 1:4 refers to a corporate election rather than an individual election.
     
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  5. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Matthew 16:17, . . . Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. . . ."
     
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  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yes, God's gracious revelation, both general and special, with the cap stones of Christ Himself and God's revealed Words in Scripture, are our blessings.
     
  7. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Simeon did declare how at first God did look after to take out of the nations a people for His name, Acts 15:14

    V 8 and the heart-knowing God did bare them testimony, having given to them the Holy Spirit, even as also to us,
     
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  8. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Context matters
    Act 15:7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: "Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe.
    Act 15:8 "So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us,
     
  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    In the New Testament, we are drawn (attracted) by seeing or becoming aware that God demonstrated His love for us by dying for us when we were yet sinners. Romans 5:8. We love Him because He first loved us.1 John 4:19. Clearly attraction rather than compulsion is in view in these New Testament verses.
     
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  10. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    I agree about context. God gave them the Spirit of Truth.

    And we -- we ought to give thanks to God always for you, brethren, beloved by the Lord, that God did choose you from the beginning to salvation, in sanctification of the Spirit, and belief of the truth, 2 Thes 2:13
     
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  11. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    So let's look at context:
    2Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,
    2Th 2:14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    All those that are chosen for salvation are chosen the same way, through belief in the truth. One is only in Christ if they believe and that only happens in time.

    As Paul said "I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek." Rom 1:16
     
  12. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    2:13 Ἡμεῖς δὲ ὀφείλομεν εὐχαριστεῖν τῷ θεῷ πάντοτε περὶ ὑμῶν ἀδελφοὶ ἠγαπημένοι ὑπὸ κυρίου ὅτι εἵλετο ὑμᾶς ὁ θεὸς ἀπ᾽ αρχῆς εἰς σωτηρίαν ἐν ἁγιασμῷ πνεύματος καὶ πίστει ἀληθείας

    I will turn this over to the Greek gurus for I know, no Greek.

    Inflected: πίστει
    Root: πίστις[​IMG]
    Strong's: G4102
    English: belief
    Code: N-DSF
    Long: Noun - Dative Singular Feminine

    Should that be translated as?

    and to belief of truth

    They are chosen, to belief, of truth?
     
  13. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    saved by the sanctification of the Spirit and by faith in the truth. BSB
    saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth. NIV
    for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. NET
    for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. NASB
    for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, NKJV
    to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: KJV

    I think you can be quite sure that if it was to be translated as "to belief" it would have been.
     
  14. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    As I said, I know, no Greek but in saying that I do not believe the words, in or the is found or implied in the truth meaning of the Greek. Any Greek gurus on board? If so debate among yourselves.
     
  15. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    "They are chosen" and Pre-Ordained from Eternity Past when Elected,
    and Called by the Gospel, in time, "to belief, of truth", and are saved.

    See below:
    εἵλατο, for the Election on the part of God
    belongs to the region of Eternity;

    The Calling
    on the part of God (2 Thessalonians 2:14)
    is the Realization of Election in Time, when they are Eternally saved.

    "Whereunto He called you by our Gospel,
    to the obtaining of the Glory of our Lord Jesus Christ,"
    , = Salvation.


    I know a little Greek; ...he runs a Delicatessen
    and a little Hebrew; ...who owns a Laundromat near me...

    2 Thessalonians 2 Meyer's NT Commentary;

    2 Thessalonians 2:13 to 2 Thessalonians 3:15,
    is the Hortatory* portion of the Epistle.

    * "urging to some course of conduct or action;
    exhorting; encouraging."


    2 Thessalonians 2:13-17,
    is an
    Exhortation to the readers
    to hold fast to the Christianity delivered to them

    (2 Thessalonians 2:15),

    as being grounded on the comfortable fact that they belonged
    not to those who perish,

    but were Fore-Ordained by God to Salvation,
    and Called to it by the Gospel

    (2 Thessalonians 2:13-14),


    and united with a pious wish that Christ and God Himself
    would comfort their minds, and strengthen them to all goodness
    (2 Thessalonians 2:16-17).

    αἱρεῖσθαι] in the sense of Divine Election,
    (Deuteronomy 26:18; Deuteronomy 7:6-7; Deuteronomy 10:15),
    does not elsewhere occur with Paul.

    He uses ἐκλέγεσθαι (Ephesians 1:4; 1 Corinthians 1:27-28),
    or προγινώσκειν (Romans 8:29; Romans 11:2),
    or προορίζειν (Romans 8:29; Ephesians 1:11).

    αἱρεῖσθαι is found in Php 1:22, 23,
    in the related sense of
    to Choose Between Two Objects the preferable" one over another.

    "But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labor:
    yet what I shall choose I wot not.


    23; "For I am in a strait betwixt two,
    having a desire to depart,
    and to be with Christ; which is far better:"


    ἀπʼ ἀρχῆς] = from the beginning, i.e. from Eternity.
    Comp. 1 John 1:1; 1 John 2:13.

    The following forms are Analogous:
    ἀπὸ τῶν αἰώνων, Ephesians 3:9;
    ἀπὸ τῶν αἰώνων καὶ ἀπὸ τῶν γενεῶν, Colossians 1:26;
    πρὸ τῶν αἰώνων, 1 Corinthians 2:7;
    πρὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου, Ephesians 1:4;
    πρὸ χρόνων αἰωνίων, 2 Timothy 1:9.

    εἵλατο, for the Election on the part of God
    belongs to the region of Eternity;

    The Calling
    on the part of God (2 Thessalonians 2:14)
    is the Realization of Election in Time, and they Experience Salvation.

    "Whereunto He called you by our Gospel,
    to the obtaining of the Glory of our Lord Jesus Christ."

    The σωτηρία, (4991 sótéria -- salvation) of the Thessalonians
    is in Undeniable Contrast
    with the Condemnation of the Ungodly
    (2 Thessalonians 2:12);

    "That they all might be damned
    who believed not the truth,
    but had pleasure in unrighteousness,"


    and thus likewise must be referred to as the result to be expected
    at
    the Advent of Christ, and accordingly must denote Eternal Salvation.

    The whole idea εἵλατο εἰς σωτηρίαν
    states the Means by which the Election,
    which has taken place in their Eternal Salvation, in time,
    was to be realized.


    Accordingly, it is also evident wherefore the Apostle
    mentions
    the belief in the Christian Truth only after ἁγιασμός,
    although otherwise the Sanctification of man
    follows only on his reception of
    the Divine Word.

    For Paul considers;

    A Twofold Means of the Realization of the Divine Election

    First, the Effectual Calling Influence of the Holy Spirit upon man's soul,
    and Secondly, man’s own reception.


    But the Former already Precedes the Latter.
     
    #15 Alan Gross, Mar 10, 2024
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2024
  16. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    "The Spirit Drawing"

    The Holy Spirit’s Work in Salvation,
    by A.W. Pink,
    chapter 7, pg. 22;

    “No man can come to Me,
    except the Father which hath Sent Me Draw him;
    and I will Raise him Up at the Last Day.”
    John 6:44.

    As the Christian now loves God
    “because he first loved” him (1Jo 4:19),
    so he sought Christ because Christ first sought him (Luk 19:10).

    Before Christ seeks us, we are well content to lie fast asleep
    in the devil’s arms, and therefore does the Lord say,
    “I am found of them that sought me not” (Isa 65: 1).

    When the Spirit first applies the Word of conviction,
    He finds the souls of all men as the angel found the world
    in Zechariah 1:11: “all the earth sitteth still, and is at rest.”

    What a strange silence and midnight stillness there is among the unsaved!

    “There is none that seeketh after God” (Rom 3:11).

    It is because of failure to perceive the dreadful condition
    in which the natural man lies,
    that difficulty is experienced in seeing the imperative need
    for the Spirit’s Drawing Power if he is to be brought out of it.


    The Natural Man is so completely enslaved by sin and enchained by Satan that he is unable to take the first step toward Christ. He is so bent on having his own way and so averse to pleasing God, he is so in love with the things of this world and so out of love with holiness, that:

    nothing short of Omnipotence can produce
    a radical change of heart in him,
    so that he will come to hate the things he naturally loved,
    and love what he previously hated.


    The Spirit’s “Drawing” is the freeing of the mind, the affections,
    and the will from the Reigning Power of Depravity; and
    it is His Emancipating of the soul from the Dominion of sin and Satan.


    Prior to that Supernatural Spiritual Deliverance,
    when the Requirements of God are pressed upon the sinner,

    he in every case rejects them. It is not that he is averse from being saved from hell, for none desire to go there, but that he is unwilling
    to “forsake” (Pro 28:13; Isa 55:7) his idols—the things which hold the first place in his affections and interests.

    This is clearly brought out in
    our Lord’s parable of “The Great Supper.”

    When "The Call" went forth,
    “Come for all things are now ready,” we are told,
    “they all with one consent began to make excuse” (Luk 14:18).

    The meaning of the term “excuse” is explained in what immediately follows:
    they preferred other things, they were unwilling to deny themselves, they would not relinquish the competitive objects—the things of time and sense
    (“a piece of ground,” “oxen,” “a wife”) were their all-absorbing concerns.

    Had nothing more been done

    by “the servant,” which in this parable is the Holy Spirit—

    all had continued to “make excuse” unto the end: that is, all had gone on cherishing their idols and turning a deaf ear to the Holy Claims of God.

    But "The Servant" (i.e., The Holy Spirit)
    was
    Commissioned to “bring in hither” (Luk 14:21),
    yes, to “compel them to come in” (v. 23).

    The Drawing of The Holy Spirit is a Holy Compulsion
    and not Physical Force which is there in View:

    the Melting of the hard heart,
    the Wooing and Winning of the soul to Christ,

    the Bestowing of Repentance and Faith,
    when the Imparting to them a New Nature = In The New Birth,
    so that the hitherto despised One,
    The LORD and SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST,
    is now desired and sought after,


    “I Drew them with cords of a man"
    [using means and motives suited to a rational nature],
    "with Bands of Love” (Hos 11:4).

    And again, God says of His people,
    “with Loving-Kindness have I Drawn thee” (Jer 31:3).
     
  17. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Jeremiah 31:3 (NASB)
    The LORD appeared to him long ago, saying,
    “I have loved you with an everlasting love;
    Therefore I have drawn you out with kindness.

    The Old Testament Hebrew word translated "drawn" is "masak" (H4900) and literally refers to pulling a physical object, but figuratively refers to attracting non-physical things like a person's point of view. Thus this verse would be better translated as "...I have attracted you with kindness."

    Hosea 11:4 (NIV)
    I led them with cords of human kindness, with ties of love. To them I was like one who lifts a little child to the cheek, and I bent down to feed them.

    Led is how the NIV translates "masak" in this verse, but again "attracted" would better convey the actual process.

    No one comes to believe in God and His Christ unless attracted by the Father's lovingkindness. If their belief is credited by God then they are set apart in Christ by the Spirit, which is the sanctifying work by the Spirit. 2 Thessalonians 2:13
     
  18. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    The Good Shepherd seeks them out. Ezekiel 34:16
     
  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Certainly the lost will be attracted with the lovingkindness of God.
     
  20. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Certainly, His lost sheep are. He calls them by name. John 10:3
     
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