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Justification by Faith !
- Thread starter Brightfame52
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Post 37 presents an errant Calvinist view, twisting scripture to make God's word to no effect.
1) Since God chooses people for salvation through (or on the basis of ) faith in the truth, the claim Faith is solely the fruit of the Spirit is false.
2) Justification on the basis of God crediting a lost person's faith as righteousness requires the lost person's faith to be credited before they are justified by the washing of regeneration.
3) Based on God crediting Gentiles faith as righteousness, just as He did to Jews, they too, by faith had their heart purified.
4) When we draw near to God, we, those born anew, do so in the full assurance our steadfast faith provides.
5) Because we trusted in God, the God of Hope will fill us with joy and peace through the power of the Holy Spirit.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
I did not dismiss the post, I provided (point by point) the actual truth,
1) Since God chooses people for salvation through (or on the basis of ) faith in the truth, the claim Faith is solely the fruit of the Spirit is false.
2) Justification on the basis of God crediting a lost person's faith as righteousness requires the lost person's faith to be credited before they are justified by the washing of regeneration.
3) Based on God crediting Gentiles faith as righteousness, just as He did to Jews, they too, by faith had their heart purified.
4) When we draw near to God, we, those born anew, do so in the full assurance our steadfast faith provides.
5) Because we trusted in God, the God of Hope will fill us with joy and peace through the power of the Holy Spirit.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
BAPTIST CONFESSION OF FAITH
SOME LOGO, HUH!!?? HEY, LOOK AT ME!!!
...
Saving Faith, Chapter 14,
PARAGRAPH 1;
"The grace of faith, whereby the elect are enabled to believe
to the saving of their souls, is the work of the Spirit of Christ in their hearts,
(2 Cor. 4:13; Eph. 2:8)"
"and is ordinarily wrought by the ministry of the Word; (Rom. 10:14,17)"...
...
You may not go with Col. 1:21–22 & Titus 3:4–7, in Paragraph 4,
as reflecting your view of Justification.
('m just playing around here.
Giving some reference history is all, etc.)
Justification, Chapter 11,
PARAGRAPH 1;
"Those whom God effectually calls, he also freely justifies,
(Rom. 3:24, 8:30)
not by infusing righteousness into them, but by pardoning their sins,
and by accounting and accepting their persons as righteous;
(Rom. 4:5–8, Eph. 1:7)
not for anything wrought in them, or done by them,
but for Christ's sake alone; (1 Cor. 1:30–31, Rom. 5:17–19)
not by imputing faith itself,
the act of believing, or any other evangelical obedience to them,
as their righteousness; but by imputing Christ's active obedience
unto the whole law, and passive obedience in his death
for their whole and sole righteousness by faith,
(Phil. 3:8–9; Eph. 2:8–10)
which faith they have not of themselves; it is the gift of God.
(John 1:12, Rom. 5:17).
PARAGRAPH 2;
"Faith thus receiving and resting on Christ and his righteousness,
is the alone instrument of justification; (Rom. 3:28)
yet is not alone in the person justified,
but is ever accompanied with all other saving graces,
and is no dead faith, but works by love. (Gal.5:6, James 2:17,22,26)
PARAGRAPH 3;
"Christ, by his obedience and death,
did fully discharge the debt of all those who are justified;
and did, by the sacrifice of himself in the blood of his cross,
undergoing in their stead the penalty due to them,
make a proper, real, and full satisfaction to God’s justice in their behalf;
Heb. 10:14; 1 Pet. 1:18–19; Isa. 53:5–6
yet, in as much as he was given by the Father for them,
and his obedience and satisfaction accepted in their stead,
and both freely, not for anything in them, (Rom. 8:32; 2 Cor. 5:21)
their justification is only of free grace,
that both the exact justice and rich grace of God
might be glorified in the justification of sinners.
(Rom. 3:26; Eph. 1:6–7, 2:7)
PARAGRAPH 4;
"God did from all eternity decree to justify all the elect,
(Gal. 3:8, 1 Pet. 1:2, 1 Tim. 2:6)
and Christ did in the fullness of time die for their sins,
and rise again for their justification; (Rom. 4:25)
nevertheless, they are not justified personally,
until the Holy Spirit in time does actually apply Christ to them.
(Col. 1:21–22, Titus 3:4–7)
PARAGRAPH 5;
"God continues to forgive the sins of those who are justified,
(Matt. 6:12, 1 John 1:7,9)
and although they can never fall from the state of justification,
(John 10:28)
yet they may, by their sins, fall under God’s fatherly displeasure;
(Ps. 89:31–33)
and in that condition, they usually do not have
the light of his countenance restored to them,
until they humble themselves, beg pardon,
and renew their faith and repentance.
(Ps. 32:5, Ps. 51, Matt. 26:75)
PARAGRAPH 6;
"The justification of believers under the Old Testament was,
in all these respects, one and the same
with the justification of believers under the New Testament."
(Gal. 3:9; Rom. 4:22–24).
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
BAPTIST CONFESSION OF FAITH
SOME LOGO, HUH!!?? HEY, LOOK AT ME!!!
...
Saving Faith, Chapter 14,
PARAGRAPH 1;
"The grace of faith, whereby the elect are enabled to believe
to the saving of their souls, is the work of the Spirit of Christ in their hearts,
(2 Cor. 4:13; Eph. 2:8)"
"and is ordinarily wrought by the ministry of the Word; (Rom. 10:14,17)"...
...
You may not go with Col. 1:21–22 & Titus 3:4–7, in Paragraph 4,
as reflecting your view of Justification.
('m just playing around here.
Giving some reference history is all, etc.)
Justification, Chapter 11,
PARAGRAPH 1;
"Those whom God effectually calls, he also freely justifies,
(Rom. 3:24, 8:30)
not by infusing righteousness into them, but by pardoning their sins,
and by accounting and accepting their persons as righteous;
(Rom. 4:5–8, Eph. 1:7)
not for anything wrought in them, or done by them,
but for Christ's sake alone; (1 Cor. 1:30–31, Rom. 5:17–19)
not by imputing faith itself,
the act of believing, or any other evangelical obedience to them,
as their righteousness; but by imputing Christ's active obedience
unto the whole law, and passive obedience in his death
for their whole and sole righteousness by faith,
(Phil. 3:8–9; Eph. 2:8–10)
which faith they have not of themselves; it is the gift of God.
(John 1:12, Rom. 5:17).
PARAGRAPH 2;
"Faith thus receiving and resting on Christ and his righteousness,
is the alone instrument of justification; (Rom. 3:28)
yet is not alone in the person justified,
but is ever accompanied with all other saving graces,
and is no dead faith, but works by love. (Gal.5:6, James 2:17,22,26)
PARAGRAPH 3;
"Christ, by his obedience and death,
did fully discharge the debt of all those who are justified;
and did, by the sacrifice of himself in the blood of his cross,
undergoing in their stead the penalty due to them,
make a proper, real, and full satisfaction to God’s justice in their behalf;
Heb. 10:14; 1 Pet. 1:18–19; Isa. 53:5–6
yet, in as much as he was given by the Father for them,
and his obedience and satisfaction accepted in their stead,
and both freely, not for anything in them, (Rom. 8:32; 2 Cor. 5:21)
their justification is only of free grace,
that both the exact justice and rich grace of God
might be glorified in the justification of sinners.
(Rom. 3:26; Eph. 1:6–7, 2:7)
PARAGRAPH 4;
"God did from all eternity decree to justify all the elect,
(Gal. 3:8, 1 Pet. 1:2, 1 Tim. 2:6)
and Christ did in the fullness of time die for their sins,
and rise again for their justification; (Rom. 4:25)
nevertheless, they are not justified personally,
until the Holy Spirit in time does actually apply Christ to them.
(Col. 1:21–22, Titus 3:4–7)
PARAGRAPH 5;
"God continues to forgive the sins of those who are justified,
(Matt. 6:12, 1 John 1:7,9)
and although they can never fall from the state of justification,
(John 10:28)
yet they may, by their sins, fall under God’s fatherly displeasure;
(Ps. 89:31–33)
and in that condition, they usually do not have
the light of his countenance restored to them,
until they humble themselves, beg pardon,
and renew their faith and repentance.
(Ps. 32:5, Ps. 51, Matt. 26:75)
PARAGRAPH 6;
"The justification of believers under the Old Testament was,
in all these respects, one and the same
with the justification of believers under the New Testament."
(Gal. 3:9; Rom. 4:22–24).
The 1869 LBCF comes close to being biblical but then they fall back into the error of Augustine and Calvin. Nice try though.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
See, Faith is a work, in that its an Spiritual Grace/ Fruit Gal 5:22, so it can have no other way to Justify one but in the declarative sense. See God alone is the One who Justifieth Rom 8:33
[33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies.
See, Spiritual fruit is contrasted to works of the flesh Gal 5:19-20
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
And these works are done with or in the mind or heart. For instance Adultery, Jesus says its a work or done in the heart /mind Matt 5:28
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
The word heart in the greek means:
the soul or mind, as it is the fountain and seat of the thoughts, passions, desires, appetites, affections, purposes, endeavours
of the understanding, the faculty and seat of the intelligence
So by works of the flesh being contrasted to fruit of the Spirit, works and fruit are interchangeable denoting activities of the mind at work.
So unless we are careful to understand Justification by Faith to be declarative before our own conscience, and not an act of our mind that causes God to Justify us before Himself, then we shall error into Justification before God by our works, the fruit of our minds. 2
[33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies.
See, Spiritual fruit is contrasted to works of the flesh Gal 5:19-20
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
And these works are done with or in the mind or heart. For instance Adultery, Jesus says its a work or done in the heart /mind Matt 5:28
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
The word heart in the greek means:
the soul or mind, as it is the fountain and seat of the thoughts, passions, desires, appetites, affections, purposes, endeavours
of the understanding, the faculty and seat of the intelligence
So by works of the flesh being contrasted to fruit of the Spirit, works and fruit are interchangeable denoting activities of the mind at work.
So unless we are careful to understand Justification by Faith to be declarative before our own conscience, and not an act of our mind that causes God to Justify us before Himself, then we shall error into Justification before God by our works, the fruit of our minds. 2
Pay no attention to the Calvinist mythology that our faith is a work. Scripture clearly and explicitly says faith is according to grace.
If we put our trust in our own righteousness based on our good works, that would be a works salvation, or another myth. OTOH, when we put our trust in Christ as Savior and Lord, and God chooses to credit that faith as righteousness by His grace, then that faith is according to grace.
Rom 4:4-5
Now to the one who works, the wages are not credited as a favor, but as what is due. But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,
Rom 4:23-25
Now not for his [Abraham's] sake only was it written that it [his faith] was credited to him, but for our sake also, to whom it [our faith] will be credited, to us who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead, He who was delivered over because of our wrongdoings, and was raised for the sake of our justification. [ Christ's resurrection from the dead is the linchpin of our faith]
If we put our trust in our own righteousness based on our good works, that would be a works salvation, or another myth. OTOH, when we put our trust in Christ as Savior and Lord, and God chooses to credit that faith as righteousness by His grace, then that faith is according to grace.
Rom 4:4-5
Now to the one who works, the wages are not credited as a favor, but as what is due. But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,
Rom 4:23-25
Now not for his [Abraham's] sake only was it written that it [his faith] was credited to him, but for our sake also, to whom it [our faith] will be credited, to us who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead, He who was delivered over because of our wrongdoings, and was raised for the sake of our justification. [ Christ's resurrection from the dead is the linchpin of our faith]
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Justification by Faith Its a promised blessing !
To Justify by Faith individuals is a Spiritual Blessing God has promised to do. Lets look at Rom 3:30
Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
The Promise here is that the One God Shall Justify the circumcision[jew] by Faith and uncircumcision[Gentile] through Faith. The word shall means that God will perform this by Hs word of Promise and Power !
Gal 3:8
And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
So we see that the uncircumcised heathen Gentile are Justified through Faith based upon a Gospel Promise God made to Abraham saying:
"In thee shall all nations be blessed."
The religion of man teaches that Justification by Faith is a product of the will of man, but thats false, its the result of the Promise, Power , and Grace of God, for it has been written " The Just shall live by Faith" 3
To Justify by Faith individuals is a Spiritual Blessing God has promised to do. Lets look at Rom 3:30
Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
The Promise here is that the One God Shall Justify the circumcision[jew] by Faith and uncircumcision[Gentile] through Faith. The word shall means that God will perform this by Hs word of Promise and Power !
Gal 3:8
And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
So we see that the uncircumcised heathen Gentile are Justified through Faith based upon a Gospel Promise God made to Abraham saying:
"In thee shall all nations be blessed."
The religion of man teaches that Justification by Faith is a product of the will of man, but thats false, its the result of the Promise, Power , and Grace of God, for it has been written " The Just shall live by Faith" 3
37818
Well-Known Member
But we Christians should belive Romans 10:17-18,
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. Per Psalms 19:4, Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world.
God gives faith though His creation He spoke into existence. Genesis 1:1-31.
1) Our justification by the grace of God is promised by God. That is not at issue.
2) Romans 3:30 indicates our God will justify the Jews based on their belief, and the Gentiles by means of their acquired faith.
3) Galatians 3:8 Since according to Scripture, God justifies non-Jews based on their belief, part of that gospel was presented beforehand to Abraham saying that through Abraham, all peoples including non-Jews would be blessed.
4) Everyone is justified by the promised washing of regeneration provided by Christ's faithfulness the seed of Abraham.
5) Justification is not the product of the will of people, justification is the product of the will of God.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
You are wasting time agreeing with me as if disagreeing.
1) Our justification by the grace of God is promised by God. That is not at issue.
2) Romans 3:30 indicates our God will justify the Jews based on their belief, and the Gentiles by means of their acquired faith.
3) Galatians 3:8 Since according to Scripture, God justifies non-Jews based on their belief, part of that gospel was presented beforehand to Abraham saying that through Abraham, all peoples including non-Jews would be blessed.
4) Everyone is justified by the promised washing of regeneration provided by Christ's faithfulness the seed of Abraham.
5) Justification is not the product of the will of people, justification is the product of the will of God.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Justification by Faith is when through the Gospel, the born again elect have their free justification declared to their mind for recognition/realization. They are made aware of having been made righteous and forgiven. Paul would preach to them the forgiveness of sins Acts 13:38
Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: or Justification ! 6 PS Its Preached to them, not offered to them
Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: or Justification ! 6 PS Its Preached to them, not offered to them
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
So by your logic every time that the gospel message is preached we should see everyone that hears it come to faith. You have short circuited the power of God.
But what does the bible tell us
"...the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes..." Rom 1:16 There's than condition again "who believes" Only God saves but He only saves those that believe. "For by grace you have been saved through faith,..." Eph 2:8
BF once again you fail to look at context.
Act 13:39 "and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.
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DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
That's the classic Hyper-Calvinist position. Most Calvinists don't do that far.
Since is was never preached that salvation is just realizing that you are of the elect then, if anything, this passage would seem to be a good argument for a universal atonement since no one is being left out at the point of the message.
The preposition translated as "by" in your post #55 is "ek" which means locatively "out of" but is used to point to the origin of something. Thus the justification arose from or is based on faith.
Here is a published translation presenting that translation choice:
NCB
since there is only one God, and he will justify both the circumcised and the uncircumcised on the basis of their faith.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Their Justification/forgiveness, one and the same, is preached to them. They didnt know it until its preached to them, they hear it [spiritually] and Faith is begotten and they believe. Thats Justification by Faith
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