Wiersbe Study Bible vs Wiersbe Bible Commentary

So what point are you trying to make KY? Still does not change what I posted does it. They still had to believe prior to salvation by God.

Joh_1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

 

The Study Bible is a very abridged version of commentary.

 

Only those born from above/born of the Spirit are able to discern and believe. John 3:3; 1 Corinthians 2:14

This is incomplete without the next verse. Those 'receiving Him' do so because they are 'born of God/born of the Spirit/born from above. John 1:13

Like Acts of the Apostles 13:48, only 'the elect' believed.

 

KY you have to take of those calvinist glasses. You are reading into the text what you want to see rather than what is there.

KY you said that one has to be saved before they can believe, so if that is true then why preach the gospel? Now if you agree that it is the means that God uses to bring people to Himself then you are saying that people have to make a choice, in other words exercise their free will.

As the bible tells us in clear text {Eph 1:13} we have to believe before we are saved. KY Jn 3:3 just confirms this "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

Even your use of 1Co 2:14 does not give you what you want. Just as a person’s own spirit knows what is going on inside that person, so only the Spirit of God knows what is going on within God. This does not mean that man can not know the truths that God has made plain for all to see or hear. God has provided many ways for man to know about Him whether creation, the gospel message or the conviction of the Holy Spirit. So while the natural man can not know the mind of God he can know the truths of God regarding salvation. We see this clearly in Acts 13:46-48 The Jews and Gentiles heard the gospel message preached by Paul & Barnabas but while the Jews rejected the message some of the Gentiles were over joyed and trusted in Christ. You say only the elect believed, true to a point KY, but they were only elect because they did believe. See Eph 1:13 or Rom 10:8-10


Joh 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

Joh 1:13 who were born,

not of blood, {through having Christian parents}

nor of the will of the flesh, {the person can not save themselves}

nor of the will of man, {no man can save another person}

but of God. {By His grace because of our faith}

 

I'm not a Calvinist.

There you go again. I didn't say that.

 

@Silverhair, am I remembering correctly that a while back you were catching some flak for suggesting those that have never heard the gospel could be saved?

 

Correct, just like the bible shows us. Well that is if one actually believes the bible.

 

So what do you call yourself? A Primitive Baptist? Same theology with a different name.

There you go again. I didn't say that.[/QUOTE]

KY your words post #23 "Only those born from above/born of the Spirit are able to discern and believe"

So if your not saying "that one has to be saved before they can believe" then you have to agree that one who has heard the gospel message has to trust in Christ Jesus before they are saved, Correct?

 

Where does the Bible show us that one can be saved without hearing the gospel?

And I’m not out to give you flak over it.

 

Try the OT. Or you can get some insight in Heb 11, the hall of faith. I happen to believe that God is sovereign and He can do as He pleases with His creation.
As I said before, those that hear the gospel message will be judged by their response to it. But for those that under conviction of the Holy Spirit or even the wonder of creation that turn to God, I just can not see Him saying well you did not say the right words so you didn't make it.

Christ was willing to die for His creation so I think God would be willing to save those that call out to Him in earnest.

 

Does regeneration necessarily precede conversion? - 9Marks : 9Marks - Tom Schreiner

 

The Spirit where He willeth doth blow.... thus is everyone born of the Spirit Jn 3:8

 

The one who has been born of God knows that he is thus reborn: the Holy Spirit, the agent in this new birth, bears witness with his spirit that he has been born of God. Rom_8:16; 1Jn_4:13; 1Jn_5:10; Gal_4:6

 

If you are reading Tom Schreiner I would not want to say anything to dissuade you. I have his and Bruce Ware's book "Still Sovereign" on my nightstand. He is solid. My only point was that I think Weirsbe's quote that you posted earlier handled this issue in a reasonable, sound way by honoring God's sovereignty and initiative, yet not overlooking man's responsibility the way some extreme Calvinists and Primitive Baptists seem to.

I would also point out that in "Still Sovereign", which was edited by Schreiner but written by multiple authors, on page 135 there is a footnote regarding "Regeneration (being born again)". There the author of that chapter, Wayne Grudem, says "Some would place regeneration before conversion and some after. The order is not important for our argument, since all would agree that regeneration is an essential element of a genuine beginning to the Christian life."

 

@Silverhair, check out the flak Billy Graham got for sharing his beliefs:

"Schuller: What, what I hear you saying that it’s possible for Jesus Christ to come into human hearts and soul and life, even if they’ve been born in darkness and have never had exposure to the Bible. Is that a correct interpretation of what you’re saying?

Graham: Yes, it is, because I believe that. I’ve met people in various parts of the world in tribal situations, that they have never seen a Bible or heard about a Bible, and never heard of Jesus, but they’ve believed in their hearts that there was a God, and they’ve tried to live a life that was quite apart from the surrounding community in which they lived. "..."

Check out: Eternity in Their Hearts: Don Richardson: 9780764215582: Amazon.com: Books

 

I’ve generally believed that without the gospel being preached, one cannot be saved.
That position emphasizes the urgent importance of evangelism.
That being said, my feeling is connected to the possibility of charismatic continualism.
I’ve have heard stories among missionaries in third world countries where the gospel is excluded, where mighty signs accompanied a miraculous presentation of Jesus, dreams, angelic presence, and various other wonders associated with the gospel presentation.
God will save those who his. He will search for his lost sheep.

Rob

 

Pharisees:
49 But this multitude that knoweth not the law are accursed. Jn 7

Fundamentalists:
But this multitude that knoweth not the gospel are accursed.

 

I will have to check those out. Did not know that about Billy Graham.

 

I am old enough to have seen God do many things many have said He does not do. I have just always believed that if a person cries out to God God will respond.

 

I listened to what Billy Graham said and it is obvious that the title of the clip is just click bait. If you listen to what he said you will see that he did not deny Christ. He said that some from various faiths will come to trust in Christ for their salvation.

I know I have spoken to Muslims, Mormons, Jw's and even atheists about Christ and we know that people from all those positions have come to trust in Christ.