I imagine you’re a legend in your own mind.
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Justification by Faith !
- Thread starter Brightfame52
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I imagine you’re a legend in your own mind.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Why do you make such comments KY.
I make no secret that I see calvinism as an errant view of scripture.
You support that view so are you a legend in your own mind KY?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Again BF context shows that you are misusing scripture in support of your errant view. The Jews that Christ was speaking to rejected Him of their own free will even though they had sufficient knowledge of who He was.
We see evidence of this where Jesus tells the Jews that they have rejected Him (Joh_5:40) despite studying the Scriptures which reveal Him (Joh_5:38-39).
Joh 5:38 "But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe.
Joh 5:39 "You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.
God sent His Son to die for the sins of all and whoever believes in the Lord Jesus Christ through saving faith will be the elect of God.
Joh 1:11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:
Even though man loves the darkness that does not mean that he can not see the light and come to it.
Total depravity does not mean total inability.
Jesus teaches free will here.
God justifies "by" faith. But just what this means is left for inference.
1) The Greek preposition translated (in Romans 3:30) as "by" is "ek" meaning out from or arising from, and is frequently best translated as "based on" which I have addressed numerous times.
2) The Greek preposition translated (in Romans 3:30) as "through" is "dia" meaning by means of, and would best be translated as "by means of acquired faith. The Jews already believed in God and His promises, the Gentiles had to first acquire that faith.
Justification of sinners occurs based on God crediting our faith in Christ's faithful sacrifice as righteousness.
1) The Greek preposition translated (in Romans 3:30) as "by" is "ek" meaning out from or arising from, and is frequently best translated as "based on" which I have addressed numerous times.
2) The Greek preposition translated (in Romans 3:30) as "through" is "dia" meaning by means of, and would best be translated as "by means of acquired faith. The Jews already believed in God and His promises, the Gentiles had to first acquire that faith.
Justification of sinners occurs based on God crediting our faith in Christ's faithful sacrifice as righteousness.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Yes men by nature love darkness, but Christ and the things of God are Light. So before a person can receive the things of God, they need a new nature thats adapted to it.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
You are putting conditions on Gods Promise, Its God who shall Justify the heathen by Faith, thats His word of Promise, obviously you dont believe it.
In fact faith in that promise is Christ, faiths object, so it could read Gal 3:8
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through Christ, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Man's nature is adapted to hearing and receiving the truth of God. That's why we are told Paul proclaimed the gospel. "...the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek". Rom 1:16
The bible is clear that man can and many do hear the gospel and believe unto salvation. "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name" Joh 1:12 So they're born of God by the will of God after they receive Christ.
Joh 1:13 who were born,
not of blood, {through having Christian parents}
nor of the will of the flesh, {the person can not save themselves}
nor of the will of man, {no man can save another person}
but of God. {By His grace because of their faith}
Those who hear and believe will be saved by the grace of God. "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God," Epn 2:8
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Mans natures Loved darkness.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
That is what the bible says but that does not preclude them trusting in God for their salvation.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Listen to Jesus and what He said about mans nature Jn 3:19
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Now Jesus is Light Jn 8:12
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
God is Light 1 Jn 1:5
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
The Gospel is Light 2 Cor 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Now man by nature hates the Light, hates God Rom 8:7
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.,
So how can a natural man Trust God when He hates Him ?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Yes Christ is the light of the world and like any light it will dispel the dark. Now as we all know not everyone likes the light but those that do will come to it.
That is why Christ made this offer.
Mat 11:28 "Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.
Mat 11:29 "Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS.
Mat 11:30 "For My yoke is easy and My burden is light."
Christ tells the poor, lost, ruined sinner, the man “burdened” with a consciousness of his transgressions, to come to him, to believe in him, and to trust him, and him only, for salvation.
If it were impossible for a lost sinner to seek God then why would Christ tell them to do what they could not do? Would that not be a lie on God’s part?
Mat 6:33 "But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.
Luk 13:24 "Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
But as you know many will not turn to Christ in faith. Not because they can not but because they will not.
Joh 5:40 "But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.
Paul under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit spoke these words to the men of Athens.
Act 17:26 "And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings,
Act 17:27 "so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;
Was God once again being disingenuous, or is it really possible for men to seek God?
You come to the false conclusion that because some men will not come to Christ then all men will not come to Christ. But the bible shows that your view is in error.
As Augustine said: “There is no saint without a past, no sinner without a future.”
You are simply repeating nonsense.
Everyone believing into Him is a conditional promise. Full stop!!!!!
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
That seems to be the point you are missing BF. God justifies but He only justifies those that believe.
"by faith" & "through faith" There is no difference in the meaning of these expressions. Both tell us that faith is the instrumental cause of justification, or acceptance with God. To put it is simple terms, no faith no justification.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Those that believe are those God Justified, believing and Justifying accompany one another. God promised to Justify them by Faith. Faith is part of the promise of Justifying. Thats the point you missing, believing or faith isnt a condition, but the blessing
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
You just keep proving that your command of the English language is wanting.
If one does not have faith/believe in Christ they will not be justified.
You have people saved before they believe. That is an unbiblical view.
But then it is a calvinist one so that shows that calvinism is unbiblical.
Did anyone say God did not say He would justify Jews based on their existing faith or that He would justify non-Jews based on their recently acquired faith? Nope
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
You just dont believe the promise. God promised Abraham children of Faith, God made him Father of believers Rom 4:11
And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
God promised Abraham children that believe Gen 17:1-7
And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.
3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,
4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.
5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
All believers are that believing seed, including gentiles.
Now this promise isnt conditioned on anything but Gods I WILL.
Gal 3:7
Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
They which are of Faith is God fulfilling His Promise to Abraham
In other words, a believers Faith is the result of Gods Promise to Abraham.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Those who are Justified by Faith, they are a product of Gods Promise to Abraham, that He will make him a Father of many nations Gen 17:5
5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
For instance Isaac was a child of promise, Abraham didnt perform any conditions to receive this child of promise nor did Isaac perform any conditions to become a child of promise, and all believers are as Isaac was, a child of promise Gal 4:28
28 Now we, brethren[believers], as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Isaac became a believer , Justified by Faith according to Gods Promise.
Bingo, @Silverhair is an unbeliever in this respect. We believe the scriptures pertaining to Sovereign Grace, he does not believe.
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