Featured Non-Calvinist Help- Questions

Good afternoon,

It has been a long time (10-15 years) since I have posted on here. I have recently been involved in a Calvinist/Non-Calvinist discussion and wanted to hear from Non-Calvinists with a few questions I had as a refresher.

1. How do you define God's Sovereignty?
2. How do you view the application of God's sovereignty?
3. What are your concerns with a Calvinistic view of God's sovereignty and why do you believe it is flawed?
4. What are the weaknesses in your view of Sovereignty and what are the weaknesses of a Calvinist view of sovereignty?

Thank you!

 

Thank you for the response.

It seems that when using the term sovereign in reference to God it is often connected to His secret will- purpose-plan. In other words, my question was geared to a more in depth explanation to how God's sovereignty relates to His accomplishing His will in space and time.

Often I hear Calvinist referred to as deterministic. In addition I hear a lot of Christians say things like, "Everything happens for a reason" or, "God is in control." My specific interest is on the Non-Calvinistic views on how God sovereignly accomplishes and brings out His purposes in a way that answers these questions of God's control or purposes in creation.

 

I was thinking I included anyone who is Not a Calvinist by saying Non-Calvinist . Back when I posted on here years ago people preferred being called non-Calvinist. I understand that some prefer to avoid titles if that is what you mean.

Along with what I stated in my last response I was hoping someone would flesh out their view a little. I respect and agree that our views and concerns should arise from the Scripture organically as we follow Christ. In your example of the mosquito. It seems that someone who does not identify with Calvinist views would not see God having any control or connection with the life of the mosquito? In that sense much of what we see in this world is random chance?

Im trying to gauge a deeper understanding of the view of how God manages the world in time and space under His rule to accomplish all He wills. With that said, salvation would fall under that umbrella in some way shape or form.

 

I am a Monergist. I have slightly different views of the mainstream Calvinism specifically in regard to how I view regeneration.

(scratching head) Yea, Yea I guess you are right.

I am not sure I am comfortable with what Arminian/Non-Cals define as deterministic in the pure sense of the term. I think the Bible unpacks things a little differently than most like to package up. There are aspects of this conversation that the Bible is silent on although teaches the concept for us to believe.

Agreed ^ assuming your interpretation is how I read it . To be clear I believe there is 1 correct interpretation of the passage and am not suggesting that there is more than one.

To be clear, I really didn't intend for someone to try to explain mystery or what God has not revealed about Himself. I was simply hoping for a Non-Calvinist to explain how they see this working in their view on a basic level. I realize that all view points struggle. To give an example of my view of God's sovereign will, I would point to the garden of Eden and draw the following conclusions:

1. God allowed mankind to fall for a purpose.
2. In regard to God's character, he did not desire for this or tempt Adam or Eve. He did not collaborate with the serpent either.
3. His hidden/secret/ultimate will was for mankind to fall and bring Christ to save sinners.
4. God had the power to prevent the fall. Example: He could have destroyed the serpent in advance yet chose not to.
5. God could have provided grace to effectually lead Adam and Eve to NOT sin similarly to that which is provided to heavenly beings. Yet God chose to give His grace after the fall.
6. Ultimately, what happened in the garden was precisely what God's plan/will/purpose was for Adam and Eve. In a sense, this was the "All things working together for good" for Adam and Eve.
7. Adam and Eve were both fully accountable for their actions and could not point a finger at God and blame Him. They were the primary cause of their own sin and rebellion.
8. The serpent is also fully accountable for his sin and will be judged for his actions.

Those are some thoughts I have in how God's sovereign will works from scriptural truths we find in Genesis 3. The outcome of the fall is not Plan B or C. It is also not something God merely foreknew in the sense that some like to interpret that word. The garden and its outcome were God's eternal plan and happened precisely in the exact way as well as all history that follows. In the same way God is sovereign (decretive will) over the garden and history that follows He is also sovereign over individual's salvation. We can exchange any of my 8 points above with lost people and saved people in time and space:

1. God saves some and not others for a specific purpose/s.
2. In regard to God's character, he does not desire for anyone to rebel or sin. He desires all to repent and trust Christ.
3. His hidden/secret will is for The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit to be glorified in salvation.
4. God has the power to save all. He chooses to save some.
5. God can provide grace to effectually lead any to Christ at any time. (John 6:35-45 / 6:63-65) The Father has choses some to be saved by Christ. All who are granted, drawn, chosen are raised on the last day.
6. Ultimately, exactly how many are saved are the precisely what God's plan/will/purpose are for mankind.
7. All humans are fully accountable for their actions/sin. They are the primary cause of their sin.
8. The serpent will be fully accountable for his actions and work against the Gospel and will of God. God's will is that he will not prevail.

 

In regard to your order of salvation, this is where I would slightly differ from mainstream Calvinism as mentioned in my comments above. Most Calvinist's see regeneration being the point in the process where God gives life to drawn a lost person to salvation that results in faith. The Blue highlighted part of the order of salvation is what I see as the process of rebirth:

Predestination/Election > Gospel Message/External Call > Effectual Call > Faith/Repentance > Justification+ Adoption > Sanctification > Glorification.

What I see scripturally is rebirth as the process of salvation as a whole starting with the Effectual Call and resulting in Justification/Adoption. The effectual call is the Spirit working through the Gospel. John 6:63, "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life." In other words, Jesus repeatedly in John 6 told the crowd that by coming to him they would be saved yet he also told them why they weren't coming. John 6:64-65, " 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him.) 65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

In these two verses we learn:

1. The Spirit Gives Life
2. The Flesh is no help
3. Many don't believe because they are not drawn or granted.

If we put these 3 truths together we can assume that the drawing/granting of the Father is done through the Spirit through the Words of Christ.

Additionally, if this drawing means that everyone who is drawn is raised on the last day then we know that this work of the Spirit is certain (Effectual Call) to accomplish a purpose. By other deductions from the text we see that coming to Christ (Faith) is a requirement to have Life then we can confirm that the work of the Spirit (Effectual Call) will always result in Faith since that is the vehicle to be justified and have eternal life. (John 6:35-40; 44-45).

 

No doubt we see this differently.

I assume this is a response to my 8 points I made about Genesis 3 and how I see that working similarly in Salvation? If so it would help me understand you better if you interacted with the points that you disagree with. Take these statements I made for example, is what I said unbiblical in some way here:

"2. In regard to God's character, he did not desire for this or tempt Adam or Eve. He did not collaborate with the serpent either.
3. His hidden/secret/ultimate will was for mankind to fall and bring Christ to save sinners.
4. God had the power to prevent the fall. Example: He could have destroyed the serpent in advance yet chose not to.
5. God could have provided grace to effectually lead Adam and Eve to NOT sin similarly to that which is provided to heavenly beings. Yet God chose to give His grace after the fall."

Thank you,
Zach