God Given Faith

[37818]

No. Choosing and election are the same thing.

You have no Scripture for that.

Saying what is not according to God's word, does not make a falsehood so.

 

[KenH]

Saying what is not according to God's word, does not make a falsehood so.

You should stop doing so.

 

[37818]

You should stop doing so.

Don't be a false accuser. Prove I did.

 

[37818]

Not at issue, Ephesians 1:4, . . . According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: . . .

This choosing precedes our knowing we are saved and our election. There is no Scripture to the contrary.


2 Peter 1:10, Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: . . .

 

[KenH]

Don't be a false accuser. Prove I did.

The words elected and chosen are synonyms. Just as one can say that a person was elected to a position or that a person was chosen for a position. They mean the same thing.

 

[KenH]

2 Peter 1:10, Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: . . .

God's elect, chosen by God the Father before the world began and given to God the Son to be Surety, are called in time. Election happened before the world was created. Those chosen by God are effectually called in time during their life on this earth.

 

[Silverhair]

Did Paul change his mind concerning Jesus as the Son of God, or did God the Father through Jesus the Son call Paul out of unbelief unto belief for PURPOSE?

Did Paul become a recipient of the first-fruit of the Spirit? Why is there a first-fruit of the Spirit?

Both, Paul had to change his mind as to who Christ was and God had called him for a specific purpose. God speaking to Ananias "Go, for he {Paul} is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel;" Act 9:15 We see Paul expand on the moment of his calling in Acts of the Apostles 26:16

If you mean salvation as the first-fruit of the Spirit then I would say yes as that comes through faith in Christ.

Joe 2:28

And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

All flesh today or just the Paul's for purpose? When is afterward ? Can just anyone that free willing wants to receive the Spirit of Truth or just the ones God is calling for purpose?

Read Joel 2:1-32 to get your answer. Short answer it is when Christ returns. Can anyone freely trust in God for salvation, YES. That is why it is called a free will.


Acts 22:9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
Gal 3:2 YLT this only do I wish to learn from you -- by works of law the Spirit did ye receive, or by the hearing of faith? [or
out of hearing of faith]
Gal 3:14 YLT that to the nations the blessing of Abraham may come in Christ Jesus, that the promise of the Spirit we may receive through the faith. --- What is, "the faith," the called hear, out of which they receive the Spirit? Is it not the obedient death and thus resurrection of Jesus the Christ.

Jesus on the cross became the, obedience of faith. IMHO

Eph 2:8 [to the] for [to] grace ye are having been saved, through [the] faith [obedient death], and this not of you -- of God the gift,

You have been saved, because of, the obedient death and thus the resurrection of Jesus [grace of life]

Heirs (not yet inheritors) of the grace of life. As in 1 Peter 3:7

Christ did not become the "obedience of faith" it was because of His obedient faith. Those that trust in the risen Christ are saved. We are not saved by His death but by His life.

 

[37818]

Election happened before the world was created.

Not what Bible teaches.

God's elect, chosen by God the Father before the world began and given to God the Son to be Surety, are called in time.

Not at issue.

 

[37818]

The words elected and chosen are synonyms.

Not in Mark 13:20, . . . the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen . . . .

 

[KenH]

Not what Bible teaches.

Yes, it does. Electing an act of God, not man. God is not waiting on man to make a move, then God makes a move, then man makes a move, then God makes a move, etc. God is not like the gods of Greek mythology or like the "superheroes" in modern day Marvel Comics movies, regardless of how many times some people on this board write like He is.

 

[37818]

Yes, it does. Electing an act of God, not man. God is not waiting on man to make a move, then God makes a move, then man makes a move, then God makes a move, etc. God is not like the gods of Greek mythology or like the "superheroes" in modern day Marvel Comics movies, regardless of how many times some people on this board write like He is.

There is no Scripture to show the election to be before time.

2 Peter 1:10, . . . give diligence to make your calling and election sure: . . .

What is the need to do so? If the election is before time, how? Since it would not really be possible to do so.

 

[KenH]

Not in Mark 13:20, . . . the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen . . . .

From the Blue Letter Bible on the word "elect" - Strong's Definitions:

ἐκλεκτός eklektós, ek-lek-tos'; select; by implication, favorite:—chosen, elect.

 

[KenH]

There is no Scripture to show the election to be before time.

2 Peter 1:10, . . . give diligence to make your calling and election sure: . . .

What is the need to do so? If the election is before time, how? Would
not really be possible.

Election happened way back in eternity before the world began - it was an action in the mind of God.

Calling happens in time when the individuals whom God elected are regenerated(born anew) and given spiritual life by God the Holy Spirit and given repentance toward God and faith toward Christ Jesus.

 

[37818]

Election happened way back in eternity before the world began - it was an action in the mind of God.

The written word of God does not teach that. You have no Scripture to support the argument.

Calling happens in time when the individuals whom God elected are regenerated(born anew) and given spiritual life by God the Holy Spirit and given repentance toward God and faith toward Christ Jesus.

Assuming limited atonement is believed and taught. How can any lost persons hear Christ paid for one's sins in order to know Christ had died them?
Matthew 7:21-23.
Luke 8:13.

 

[KenH]

The written word of God does not teach that. You have no Scripture to support the argument.

Yes, that is what the Bible teaches.

How can any lost persons hear Christ paid for one's sins in order to know Christ had died them?

God brings His elect under the hearing of the gospel of Christ during their lifetime(example: for me that was in June 2021) and the Holy Spirit then regenerates them, giving them spiritual life(born anew), so that they can now understand the gospel, and He gives them the gifts of repentance toward God and faith toward Christ Jesus, and God preserves them while on this earth and if they die, in heaven, until Christ returns and establishes the new heavens and earth wherein dwells righteousness.

 

[37818]

Yes, that is what the Bible teaches.

And no cited Scripture?

God brings His elect under the hearing of the gospel of Christ during their lifetime(example: for me that was in June 2021) and the Holy Spirit then regenerates them, giving them spiritual life(born anew), so that they can now understand the gospel, and He gives them the gifts of repentance toward God and faith toward Christ Jesus, and God preserves them while on this earth and if they die, in heaven, until Christ returns and establishes the new heavens and earth wherein dwells righteousness.

You did not answer,

Assuming limited atonement is believed and taught. How can any lost persons hear Christ paid for one's sins in order to know Christ had died them?
Matthew 7:21-23.
Luke 8:13.

 

[KenH]

And no cited Scripture?

Ephesians 1:3-6 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

You did not answer

I believe I did. The fact that God's elect are given the gifts of repentance toward God and faith toward Christ Jesus means that Christ died as their substitute. Otherwise, they would not have repented from dead works and believe in Christ.

The gospel of Christ is taught from Genesis 1:1 through Revelation 22:21. The Word of God is the entire Bible.

 

[37818]

Ephesians 1:3-6 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

God's choosing, yes. The election follows it's call in time.

I believe I did.

But you didn't. And your following answer doesn't explain how any yet lost persons can objectively know Christ died for one, in the belief Christ did not die for everyone.

 

[37818]

The fact that God's elect are given the gifts of repentance toward God and faith toward Christ Jesus means that Christ died as their substitute. Otherwise, they would not have repented from dead works and believe in Christ.

 

[Van]

GOD GIVEN FAITH

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

The faith of God's elect is a gracious, God given revelation of who he is and what he has accomplished in their place, in the obedience unto death of Christ. It is knowing him, as he is and knowing how his satisfactory work before God the Father pertains to us. SNIP

Calvinism falsely claims the "gift" of Ephesians 2:8-9 includes faith, as in beliefs instilled by irresistible grace into those unable to put their own faith toward God and His Christ. However, the Greek grammar of the verse dictates that the gift is "salvation by grace" and not faith.

The revelation of God is His gracious gift, both general and special revelation.

When do lost sinners "know" Him. Only after they have been transferred into Christ, undergone and washing of regeneration, and have been indwelt. Believers "know" Him when we are in Him and He is in us.

Thus the opening post of this now 4 page thread, is just another fiction, an unstudied relic of the dark ages.