The problem of evil.

[Van]

The problem of evil is an old and false effort to create confusion.

Lets start with the assertion that God is Omnibenevolent. First we need to define the term. How about God is always good, and His goodness is unlimited. Say your family is in the path of a tornado, and your home and loved ones are destroyed. Now would you say God is good when some of His provisions allow calamity to impact our lives. God has mercy on whom He has mercy, yet does not have mercy on all. Those that do not receive His mercy, would they say that action was good?
Would Judas say God was Omnibenevolent when God chose Judas to be the "betrayer?" Good in that it served God's purpose, utilitarian goodness, but not for those sacrificed.

1) God's actions are always good from God's perspective

2) God's actions might not be viewed as good from the recipient of His action to harden or condemn or allow them to fall victim to the evil done by calamity or other persons.

3) God has the power to limit or not limit His utilization of His attributes. Jesus set aside some or parts of some of His divine attributes to be "made a little lower" than God. God's merciful actions can be limited to some and not bestowed on others.

 

[Silverhair]

1) Did I claim what God did would be called "good?" Noipe I say those on the receiving end of condemnation or calamity will call the circumstance not good.

2) Is God good. Yes. Is God "infinite?" He is beyond our understanding. Beyond our ability to measure. The Greek word "mispār" (H4557) is translated as "infinite" (Psalm 147:5 KJV). The NASB also translates the word as "infinite" but footnotes the meaning as "innumerable" thus beyond measure.

3) Of course God loves humanity (John 3:16) yet even while still sinners. That in no way disproves the Omnibenevolence is false doctrine. God"s agapeo love (sacrificial love) does not preclude God from condemning sinners to Hades, or hardening the hearts of Jews to facilitate spreading the gospel to Gentiles.

4) Yes God desires all humans to be saved according to His redemption plan. He does not desire unbelieving humans to be saved, but condemns them for unbelief. Our job is to witness to the lost such that they have the opportunity to believe!!

What do you think Omnibenevolence is if it is not loving the world? You have not shown anything that disproves the Omnibenevolence of God.

You contradict yourself @Van Of course God loves humanity (John 3:16) yet even while still sinners. That in no way disproves the Omnibenevolence is false doctrine."

Is God not All-loving? Is God not infinitely good? You just agreed God loves humanity so He is "All-loving".

So now the question we have to answer is God "infinitely good". The bible indicates that He is:
Jas_1:17 Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow.
And we know that He is always truthful:
Tit_1:2 in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised long ages ago,

So when the Holy Spirit {God} who cannot lie shows us that God is both "All-loving" & "Infinitely good" then we can know the God is indeed Omnibenevolent.

You seem to think that if God is Omnibenevolent then He could not condemn people to hell. That is just your misunderstanding of the meaning of the word. As a parent have you never punished your child that you love?

 

[Van]

What do you think Omnibenevolence is
SNIP
You seem to think that if God is Omnibenevolent then He could not condemn people to hell. That is just your misunderstanding of the meaning of the word. As a parent have you never punished your child that you love?

LOL, does not the potter have the right over the clay? Must He always treat His creations with kindness? No of course not.

Omnibenevolence is defined by the Oxford English Dictionary as "unlimited or infinite benevolence". Some philosophers have argued that it is impossible, or at least improbable, for a deity to exhibit such a property alongside omniscience and omnipotence, as a result of the problem of evil.​

If I do not know how the word is used to describe God, I have lots of company.

 

[Silverhair]

LOL, does not the potter have the right over the clay? Must He always treat His creations with kindness? No of course not.

Omnibenevolence is defined by the Oxford English Dictionary as "unlimited or infinite benevolence". Some philosophers have argued that it is impossible, or at least improbable, for a deity to exhibit such a property alongside omniscience and omnipotence, as a result of the problem of evil.​

If I do not know how the word is used to describe God, I have lots of company.

It is shocking that you have such a low view of God but there it is. You trust philosophers I trust the Holy Spirit's inspired word.

 

[Van]

It is shocking that you have such a low view of God but there it is. You trust philosophers I trust the Holy Spirit's inspired word.

Anytime a poster starts addressing me and disparaging me, while ignoring the topic, the discussion if over. I provided a well known viewpoint of the meaning of Omnibenevolence, and this seems to be addressed by saying it is a "low view of God." But the reason is not given.

 

[Van]

Anytime someone claims Omnibenevolence is demonstrated by God having mercy on whom He has mercy and hardens whom He hardens, we know the baloney is being sliced pretty thin. (Romans 9:18)

 

[Silverhair]

Anytime someone claims Omnibenevolence is demonstrated by God having mercy on whom He has mercy and hardens whom He hardens, we know the baloney is being sliced pretty thin. (Romans 9:18)

So you just ignore what the Holy Spirit say.

 

[Van]

So you just ignore what the Holy Spirit say.

Note the lack of a specific reference. I have addressed God being love and God being good. Folks, constant charges addressed to me, but nothing to support that Omnibenevolence is not false doctrine has been offered.

Anytime someone claims Omnibenevolence is demonstrated by God having mercy on whom He has mercy and hardens whom He hardens, we know the baloney is being sliced pretty thin. (Romans 9:18)

 

[Silverhair]

Note the lack of a specific reference. I have addressed God being love and God being good. Folks, constant charges addressed to me, but nothing to support that Omnibenevolence is not false doctrine has been offered..

@Van why do you post a false comment.

You have responded to my post :

"What do you think Omnibenevolence is if it is not loving the world? You have not shown anything that disproves the Omnibenevolence of God.

You contradict yourself @Van Of course God loves humanity (John 3:16) yet even while still sinners. That in no way disproves the Omnibenevolence is false doctrine."

Is God not All-loving? Is God not infinitely good? You just agreed God loves humanity so He is "All-loving".

So now the question we have to answer is God "infinitely good". The bible indicates that He is:
Jas_1:17 Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow.
And we know that He is always truthful:
Tit_1:2 in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised long ages ago,

So when the Holy Spirit {God} who cannot lie shows us that God is both "All-loving" & "Infinitely good" then we can know the God is indeed Omnibenevolent.

You seem to think that if God is Omnibenevolent then He could not condemn people to hell. That is just your misunderstanding of the meaning of the word. As a parent have you never punished your child that you love?"

And yet you say "Note the lack of a specific reference." you did not believe what the HS said before so now you claim you have not been shown anything that supports Omnibenevolence.

You are making false statements @Van. Not very becoming of a Christian

 

[Van]

You just agreed God loves humanity so He is "All-loving".

Where did I say "God is All Loving? No quote will be forthcoming. I said God is Love. Full Stop

I said God loves humanity and desires all to be saved ACCORDING TO HIS REDEMPTION PLAN.

3) Of course God loves humanity (John 3:16) yet even while still sinners. That in no way disproves that Omnibenevolence is false doctrine. God"s agapeo love (sacrificial love) does not preclude God from condemning sinners to Hades, or hardening the hearts of Jews to facilitate spreading the gospel to Gentiles.

4) Yes God desires all humans to be saved according to His redemption plan. He does not desire unbelieving humans to be saved, but condemns them for unbelief.(John 3:18) Our job is to witness to the lost such that they have the opportunity to believe!!​

 

[37818]

Stop trying to change the subject from the topic. You know that God the Son is the Second Person of the Trinity. Just because something like the Persons of our Triune God are vaguely described in scripture, does not mean we cannot use clear, plain and unambiguous names to designate who we are talking about.

We do not understand the Trinity in the same way. There are at least three views on the Biblical Trinity.

 

[Van]

Did Adam sin before the fall? Yes
Did Adam sin before his "spirit/soul" was corrupted as a consequence of his sin? Yes
Did sin enter the world through the disobedience of Adam? Yes

Therefore: Adam sinned. Before his sin, sin had not "entered the world." Therefore his capacity to sin was innate. Romans 5:12-14

 

[Silverhair]

Where did I say "God is All Loving? No quote will be forthcoming. I said God is Love. Full Stop

I said God loves humanity and desires all to be saved ACCORDING TO HIS REDEMPTION PLAN.

3) Of course God loves humanity (John 3:16) yet even while still sinners. That in no way disproves that Omnibenevolence is false doctrine. God"s agapeo love (sacrificial love) does not preclude God from condemning sinners to Hades, or hardening the hearts of Jews to facilitate spreading the gospel to Gentiles.

4) Yes God desires all humans to be saved according to His redemption plan. He does not desire unbelieving humans to be saved, but condemns them for unbelief.(John 3:18) Our job is to witness to the lost such that they have the opportunity to believe!!​

@Van I do have to question your ability to read. Do you understand what "" marks are used for?

You are stuck trusting what philosophers say and ignore what the HS has said. If you think that scripture should not be used to rove ones position then you have a serious problem.

I have no more time to waste on someone that denies scripture.

 

[Van]

@Van I do have to question your ability to read. Do you understand what "" marks are used for?

You are stuck trusting what philosophers say and ignore what the HS has said. If you think that scripture should not be used to rove ones position then you have a serious problem.

I have no more time to waste on someone that denies scripture.

First you question my qualifications. This is a ploy used by the "taint so" posters
I posted scripture you support my position, then you say I rely of philosophers.
I did not introduce the false premise of the problem of evil, you did. I debunked it from scripture.

 

[Silverhair]

First you question my qualifications. This is a ploy used by the "taint so" posters
I posted scripture you support my position, then you say I rely of philosophers.
I did not introduce the false premise of the problem of evil, you did. I debunked it from scripture.

@Van you have not supported your position but you have denied what the HS has said. Lets try this again shall we.

Is God not All-loving? Is God not infinitely good? You agreed God loves humanity so He is "All-loving".

So now the question we have to answer is God "infinitely good". The bible indicates that He is:
Jas_1:17 Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow.
And we know that He is always truthful:
Tit_1:2 in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised long ages ago,

So when the Holy Spirit {God} who cannot lie shows us that God is both "All-loving" & "Infinitely good" then we can know the God is indeed Omnibenevolent.

You seem to think that if God is Omnibenevolent then He could not condemn people to hell. That is just your misunderstanding of the meaning of the word. As a parent have you never punished your child that you love?"

And yet you say "Note the lack of a specific reference." you did not believe what the HS said before so now you claim you have not been shown anything that supports Omnibenevolence.

You quoted the Oxford dictionary that supports Omnibenevolence then you refer to philosophers that do not and claim you have proven that Omnibenevolence is false. Strange bit of logic they Van. You trust man rather than God.

But I will let you have the last word as logic and scripture do not seem to work with you on this.

 

[Van]

@Van you have not supported your position but you have denied what the HS has said. Lets try this again shall we.

Is God not All-loving? Is God not infinitely good? You agreed God loves humanity so He is "All-loving".

So now the question we have to answer is God "infinitely good". The bible indicates that He is:
Jas_1:17 Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow.
And we know that He is always truthful:
Tit_1:2 in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised long ages ago,

So when the Holy Spirit {God} who cannot lie shows us that God is both "All-loving" & "Infinitely good" then we can know the God is indeed Omnibenevolent.

You seem to think that if God is Omnibenevolent then He could not condemn people to hell. That is just your misunderstanding of the meaning of the word. As a parent have you never punished your child that you love?"

And yet you say "Note the lack of a specific reference." you did not believe what the HS said before so now you claim you have not been shown anything that supports Omnibenevolence.

You quoted the Oxford dictionary that supports Omnibenevolence then you refer to philosophers that do not and claim you have proven that Omnibenevolence is false. Strange bit of logic they Van. You trust man rather than God.

But I will let you have the last word as logic and scripture do not seem to work with you on this.

God's love does not preclude having mercy on some loved ones and hardening the hearts of other loved ones.
I cited a blurb defining Omnibenevolence. See post 43.
Nothing is scripture supports the false doctrine of Omnibenevolence.
The OED defines Omnibenevolence as unlimited, but God does as He pleases including limiting His attributes for His purposes. The OED does not support the validity of the premise. It defines Universalism but that is invalid too. God is good and God is love, but that does not preclude God causing calamity or condemning unbelievers to Hades.

 

[Van]

Atheism's Problem of Evil, is an attack on the validity of God.

Is God able to prevent Evil.? The bible says God is all-powerful, (Almighty )thus He is able to prevent Evil.
Is God willing to prevent Evil. If not, then God is not perfectly Good, infinity Good, Unlimited in His Goodness.

Here the idea is God must never act in a way humanity or some of humanity, would consider evil, such as calamity or allowing humans to sin or condemning them to Hades. But from God's point of view, since these adversities are according to His purpose, they are "good."

Thus the problem of Evil is false doctrine, arising from a bogus premise inconsistent with the Bible.