Jesus Christ The God-Man

[Salty]

For the LAST time, The God-Man, 100% God and 100% Man, except for sin. He APPEARED as a "human" as Paul clearly says in Philippians 2:7, "being born in the LIKENESS (ὁμοιώματι) of men", because Jesus Christ, even though He LOOKED like another "human", is not, because He is God in the flesh, 2 natures in 1 Person! the Greek ὁμοίωμα means "resemblance", but not a phantom. ...

IMHO - Paul did NOT clearly say he "Appeared as a human"
rather it says "and was made in the likeness of men"

He was MADE
yes, he was 100% human - and just like Adam - had no sin!

You say he "appeared" So when he was on the cross - did he just "appear" that he shed his blood and then died
or did he actually shed he blood then died.

So it looks like we (and not just me) have a difference of opinion.

 

[SavedByGrace]

IMHO - Paul did NOT clearly say he "Appeared as a human"
rather it says "and was made in the likeness of men"

He was MADE
yes, he was 100% human - and just like Adam - had no sin!

You say he "appeared" So when he was on the cross - did he just "appear" that he shed his blood and then died
or did he actually shed he blood then died.

So it looks like we (and not just me) have a difference of opinion.

The Greek word used in Philippians 2:7, is "ὁμοίωμα", which means, "likeness i. e. resemblance" (Thayer Greek Lexicon; Abbott-Smith Greek Lexicon, etc). What this means is, that Jesus Christ was "like" any other human, when you saw Him, but essentially was not, as He was after His Incarnation, always fully God and fully Man, except sin, The God-Man, and not just another mere human being. How can you call someone who is "God in the flesh", a "human being"? When He is Almighty God manifested in the flesh, as 1 Timothy 3:16 says? Jesus' human nature is very real, as He is consubstantial with us, except sin. It is because that He is always MORE than just a Man. As I said, His "body" is no "phantom" as the Gnostics taught, but very real. I have used Biblical language as the Greek says, so it is not my personal "theology".

This is what the Greek scholar Dr A T Robertson says:

In the likeness of men (εν ομοιωματ ανθρωπων). It was a likeness, but a real likeness (Kennedy), no mere phantom humanity as the Docetic Gnostics held. Note the difference in tense between υπαρχων (eternal existence in the μορφη of God) and γενομενος (second aorist middle participle of γινομα, becoming, definite entrance in time upon his humanity).

And, Dr M R Vincent

Was made in the likeness of men (ἐν ὁμοιώματι ἀνθρώπων γενόμενος)
Lit., becoming in, etc. Notice the choice of the verb, not was, but became: entered into a new state. Likeness. The word does not imply the reality of our Lord's humanity, μορφή form implied the reality of His deity. That fact is stated in the form of a servant. Neither is εἰκών image employed, which, for our purposes, implies substantially the same as μορφή. See on Col 1:15. As form of a servant exhibits the inmost reality of Christ's condition as a servant - that He became really and essentially the servant of men (Luk 22:27) - so likeness of men expresses the fact that His mode of manifestation resembled what men are. This leaves room for the assumption of another side of His nature - the divine - in the likeness of which He did not appear. As He appealed to men, He was like themselves, with a real likeness; but this likeness to men did not express His whole self. The totality of His being could not appear to men, for that involved the form of God. Hence the apostle views Him solely as He could appear to men. All that was possible was a real and complete likeness to humanity. What He was essentially and eternally could not enter into His human mode of existence. Humanly He was like men, but regarded with reference to His whole self, He was not identical with man, because there was an element of His personality which did not dwell in them - equality with God. Hence the statement of His human manifestation is necessarily limited by this fact, and is confined to likeness and does not extend to identity. “To affirm likeness is at once to assert similarity and to deny sameness” (Dickson). See on Rom 8:3.

 

[Salty]

I will sum it up like this
You have attempted, you have not changed my belief :
Thus e apparently have a difference of opinion!
And with that - Have a good day

 

[37818]

The topic of this thread brought to mind John 3:13, KJV, ". . . And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. . . ." That Jesus being born the man and remained the omnipresent God, being the Son. [Proverbs 30:4.]

 

[SavedByGrace]

I will sum it up like this
You have attempted, you have not changed my belief :
Thus e apparently have a difference of opinion!
And with that - Have a good day

Your disagreement is with the Bible not me

 

[JesusFan]

For the LAST time, The God-Man, 100% God and 100% Man, except for sin. He APPEARED as a "human" as Paul clearly says in Philippians 2:7, "being born in the LIKENESS (ὁμοιώματι) of men", because Jesus Christ, even though He LOOKED like another "human", is not, because He is God in the flesh, 2 natures in 1 Person! the Greek ὁμοίωμα means "resemblance", but not a phantom.

Do you get this yet? if not, I suggest that you pray and ask the Holy Spirit to open your understanding.

Jesus was human, as he accepted om the limitations of becoming a true human being, except that he has a sinless human nature

 

[JesusFan]

IMHO - Paul did NOT clearly say he "Appeared as a human"
rather it says "and was made in the likeness of men"

He was MADE
yes, he was 100% human - and just like Adam - had no sin!

You say he "appeared" So when he was on the cross - did he just "appear" that he shed his blood and then died
or did he actually shed he blood then died.

So it looks like we (and not just me) have a difference of opinion.

if jesus only appeared to be human, was he something else then while on earth?

 

[CJP69]

For the LAST time, The God-Man, 100% God and 100% Man, except for sin. He APPEARED as a "human" as Paul clearly says in Philippians 2:7, "being born in the LIKENESS (ὁμοιώματι) of men", because Jesus Christ, even though He LOOKED like another "human", is not, because He is God in the flesh, 2 natures in 1 Person! the Greek ὁμοίωμα means "resemblance", but not a phantom.

Do you get this yet? if not, I suggest that you pray and ask the Holy Spirit to open your understanding.

This topic is one of those where one's disagreement with what someone has said may be purely semantic in nature. Let me see if you agree with the following....

I do not disagree with anything you've said in the above quoted post except that I don't see "2 natures in 1 Person", I just see one person with one divinely human nature. Logos became a human being. He didn't stop being Logos, He didn't stop being the Creator. He, the Creator of all that exists outside of Himself, took on human flesh and became a man. He died and rose from the dead with a new glorified body that is still quite physical and fully human. He retains that physical body to this day and will do so forever more and so it isn't not two in one, it's just one. He is the God-man.

Forgive the inadequacy of the analogy but its similar to when you combine milk, sugar, eggs and flour and bake it all in the oven. You don't end up with something that has four (or more) natures, right? You've baked a cake and the cake is its own thing. You can't break the cake open and say this part is egg and that part is sugar. Even if you could, if you did so, you'd no longer have the cake. Likewise, the humanity of Logos is now "baked in" if you will and He exists now as one fully integrated God-man.

 

[Alan Gross]

With this:

Logos became a human being.

and this:

He, the Creator of all that exists outside of Himself,
took on human flesh and became a man.

and especially this:

the humanity of Logos is now "baked in" if you will
and He exists now as one fully integrated God-man.

What is going on there with all those?
and this?:

I don't see "2 natures in 1 Person", I just see one person
with one divinely human nature.

What happened when,
that "one person with one divinely human nature"
Who was all those other "one fully integrated God-man" things
you are saying above, did what you said next, here?

He died

That "one person with one divinely human nature"
Who was "one fully integrated God-man", etc., died?

 

[CJP69]

With this:

and this:

and especially this:

What is going on there with all those?
and this?:

What happened when,
that "one person with one divinely human nature"
Who was all those other "one fully integrated God-man" things
you are saying above, did what you said next, here?



That "one person with one divinely human nature"
Who was "one fully integrated God-man", etc., died?

God died so that you don't have to!

That's the gospel!

Believe it or die in your sin!

 

[SavedByGrace]

This topic is one of those where one's disagreement with what someone has said may be purely semantic in nature. Let me see if you agree with the following....

I do not disagree with anything you've said in the above quoted post except that I don't see "2 natures in 1 Person", I just see one person with one divinely human nature. Logos became a human being. He didn't stop being Logos, He didn't stop being the Creator. He, the Creator of all that exists outside of Himself, took on human flesh and became a man. He died and rose from the dead with a new glorified body that is still quite physical and fully human. He retains that physical body to this day and will do so forever more and so it isn't not two in one, it's just one. He is the God-man.

Forgive the inadequacy of the analogy but its similar to when you combine milk, sugar, eggs and flour and bake it all in the oven. You don't end up with something that has four (or more) natures, right? You've baked a cake and the cake is its own thing. You can't break the cake open and say this part is egg and that part is sugar. Even if you could, if you did so, you'd no longer have the cake. Likewise, the humanity of Logos is now "baked in" if you will and He exists now as one fully integrated God-man.

The "Second Person" in the Trinity, Who is 100% Almighty God, and 100% coequal with the "First Person" and "Third Person", existed from all eternity in the Eternal Godhead or Divine Nature

At the Time of The Incarnation when Jesus Christ, The Second Person in the Godhead, was Conceived in the womb of the Virgin Mary, He "took upon Himself the very Nature" of us humans, actually derived from Mary, with the exception of any sin. At this time, and thereafter, Jesus Christ never for a single moment, ever cease to be Almighty God, YHWH, for this is something that is impossible for Him to have done. He IS always, continually, in "the very Nature of God".

It is NOT, that The Second Person in the Godhead, only "indwelt" a human "body" or "shell", and fully "changed" into a "human". NO, at the Time of the Incarnation, the Eternal Second Person, "The Word of God", Who IS Himself also "God", "added" to His Divine Nature, 100% sinless Human Nature, on the One Human Body, and He IS The One Person, the God-Man.

The ONLY "Attribute" that Jesus Christ "gave up" at the Incarnation, and during His earthly life, is the "equality in Glory" that He always had with the Father. This is very clear from John 17:5, and Hebrews 2:9. There were times in the Gospels, where Jesus Christ did and said things as God; and there are times, where He did and said things as a Human.

The Incarnation is what the Apostle Paul calls, "The Mystery of Godliness", that "God was manifested in the flesh"; and John says, "The Word was God...and the Word became flesh and lived among us".

 

[SavedByGrace]

God died so that you don't have to!

That's the gospel!

Believe it or die in your sin!

very much WRONG!

God Who is Eternal, CANNOT "die", this is the very reason that God was manifested in the flesh!

It is the PERSON, The God-Man, Jesus Christ, Who died on the Cross, according to His Human "Nature".

"But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of His suffering death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone"

God cannot "die", so He "took upon Himself" the very Nature of Humans, in Jesus Christ, so that He could "die"

In 1 Peter 3:18 we read, "For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit"

Jesus Christ was able to "suffer" because He was put to Death "in the flesh", something quite impossible for Almighty God.

 

[37818]

God died so that you don't have to!

As God He didn't die.

Jesus as the Christ was both the man and God the Creator! As the man He died, as God He maintained creation. Hebrews 1:3, . . . upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, . . .

 

[CJP69]

The "Second Person" in the Trinity, Who is 100% Almighty God, and 100% coequal with the "First Person" and "Third Person", existed from all eternity in the Eternal Godhead or Divine Nature

True and not in dispute.

At the Time of The Incarnation when Jesus Christ, The Second Person in the Godhead, was Conceived in the womb of the Virgin Mary, He "took upon Himself the very Nature" of us humans, actually derived from Mary, with the exception of any sin.

True and not in dispute.

At this time, and thereafter, Jesus Christ never for a single moment, ever cease to be Almighty God, YHWH, for this is something that is impossible for Him to have done. He IS always, continually, in "the very Nature of God".

Again, true and not in dispute.

It is NOT, that The Second Person in the Godhead, only "indwelt" a human "body" or "shell", and fully "changed" into a "human". NO, at the Time of the Incarnation, the Eternal Second Person, "The Word of God", Who IS Himself also "God", "added" to His Divine Nature, 100% sinless Human Nature, on the One Human Body, and He IS The One Person, the God-Man.

I agree with one caveat and this, again, may be a semantic issue...

"It is NOT, that The Second Person in the Godhead, [snip] fully "changed" into a "human".

What do you mean by, "fully "changed" into a "human""?

The quotes indicate that the word "changed" and "human" have some meaning there that I think it would be good to unpack.

Jesus was as fully human as it is possible to be. He was (is) as human as Adam was prior to his fall. He hadn't ever been even a little bit human before that and so that sounds like a change to me.

The ONLY "Attribute" that Jesus Christ "gave up" at the Incarnation, and during His earthly life, is the "equality in Glory" that He always had with the Father. This is very clear from John 17:5, and Hebrews 2:9. There were times in the Gospels, where Jesus Christ did and said things as God; and there are times, where He did and said things as a Human.

I'd have to agree with you.

The Incarnation is what the Apostle Paul calls, "The Mystery of Godliness", that "God was manifested in the flesh"; and John says, "The Word was God...and the Word became flesh and lived among us".

I totally agree.

As I said, it feels like an issue of semantics here but I'm not certain of it yet.

 

[CJP69]

very much WRONG!

God Who is Eternal, CANNOT "die", this is the very reason that God was manifested in the flesh!

Saying it doesn't make it so.

What do you understand it to mean to die?

It is the PERSON, The God-Man, Jesus Christ, Who died on the Cross, according to His Human "Nature".

That's your doctrine. The bible never makes any such distinction.

"But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of His suffering death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone"

Amen!

God cannot "die", so He "took upon Himself" the very Nature of Humans, in Jesus Christ, so that He could "die"

This is true but it does not contradict what I've said.

In 1 Peter 3:18 we read, "For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit"

Jesus Christ was able to "suffer" because He was put to Death "in the flesh", something quite impossible for Almighty God.

I do not deny that Jesus died in the flesh or that He was made alive by the Spirit.

I ask you again....

What do you understand it to mean to die?

 

[CJP69]

As God He didn't die.

Oh yes, He did! That's what makes His death sufficient to pay the debt of an entire planet's history worth of people.

An innocent man could justly die for another man but not even two other men, never mind billions. It is God's life that is of sufficient value (i.e. infinite value) to pay the debt that was owed.

Jesus as the Christ was both the man and God the Creator! As the man He died, as God He maintained creation. Hebrews 1:3, . . . upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, . . .

A conundrum only those who deny the Trinity have to grapple with and Jesus did not sit down at the right hand of the Father until after His resurrection. (John 20:17)

 

[37818]

Oh yes, He did!

You have zero word of God on that. Rather as the man said on the cross in Hebrew, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Fulfilling Isaiah 53:6, the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

 

[SavedByGrace]

True and not in dispute.


True and not in dispute.


Again, true and not in dispute.


I agree with one caveat and this, again, may be a semantic issue...

"It is NOT, that The Second Person in the Godhead, [snip] fully "changed" into a "human".

What do you mean by, "fully "changed" into a "human""?

The quotes indicate that the word "changed" and "human" have some meaning there that I think it would be good to unpack.

Jesus was as fully human as it is possible to be. He was (is) as human as Adam was prior to his fall. He hadn't ever been even a little bit human before that and so that sounds like a change to me.


I'd have to agree with you.


I totally agree.

As I said, it feels like an issue of semantics here but I'm not certain of it yet.

The Second Person in the Godhead, The Lord Jesus Christ, IS eternally YHWH, the Unchanging Almighty God, as IS The Father and The Holy Spirit.

When Jesus Christ was Conceived in the womb of the Virgin Mary, He did not "give up", or "empty Himself" of Being The eternal God. This would mean that He CHANGED from Deity to Human, and He would have walked on this earth as a normal human being!

There are things that we see in the Gospels, like "growing in wisdom", becoming "thirsty", and "tired", and "not knowing some events", and the need to "rest, sleep", that are NOT from the Divine Nature of the One Person, Jesus Christ, but the Human Nature, as we are. We also read that Jesus forgave sins, walked on water, Spoke as The Great I AM, accepted Worship, knew all things, told people what was in their thoughts and heart, said that He was equal with the Father, and to be Honored as the Father is, etc, none of these can be true of Jesus' Human Nature, but only of His Divine Nature, as Almighty God

 

[SavedByGrace]

Saying it doesn't make it so.

What do you understand it to mean to die?


That's your doctrine. The bible never makes any such distinction.


Amen!


This is true but it does not contradict what I've said.


I do not deny that Jesus died in the flesh or that He was made alive by the Spirit.

I ask you again....

What do you understand it to mean to die?

Can Almighty God die?

 

[CJP69]

You have zero word of God on that.

I have the ENTIRE word of God on that!

We need to define terms.

What does it mean to die?

If you're willing to answer the question we can continue. If you want to post one or two sentence posts then forget it. Believe what you want.

Rather as the man said on the cross in Hebrew, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Fulfilling Isaiah 53:6, the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

You state that I have zero word of God on it and then quote a verse that proves my position!!!

I ask you again, what does it mean to die? Do you know?