Featured Romans 9 Isn't What You Think It Is

Yes Christ was chosen, to be the Lamb of God, the Redeemer.

Yes, when Christ was chosen as Redeemer, anyone subsequently redeems was chosen corporately when He was chosen before creation.

We, born anew believers, are elect individuals. As elect individuals we have been placed spiritually into Christ. Since Christ died, no one is elect but not transferred, because when God chooses an individual He choice is effected by setting the person apart in Christ.

Everyone when elected for salvation is lost, unregenerate and heading for destruction at the time of election.

The elect Gentiles are grafted into the natural tree, thus becoming descendants of Abraham.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 clearly teaches those chosen for salvation were not saved before they were chosen.
They were not in Christ before they were chosen. You do not choose to save saved people, you choose to save unsaved people.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 clearly teaches the means by when we were chosen, through the sanctification by the Spirit, we were transferred out of being in Adam and into being in Christ. We were set apart in Christ.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 clearly teaches the basis of our election, through faith in the truth, when God credits our faith as righteous.

 

I agree.

But on a side note, I'm not sure what you mean by "interprets"...
I can tell you that my understanding of the Bible was arrived at over decades, but it's based on what is written, not on anyone's "interpretation".

To me, God's word isn't like a language that needs "interpretation"...
It's a book containing His inspired words that we, as His children, believe.

In some ways I agree with you here, and in others I do not.

Once again, I agree with you here as well...
Only I don't drawn on other passages in order to arrive at an understanding of Romans 9.

I understand it based on what it says, and what was said in the prior chapters.

 

Not being a "Calvinist" ( but agreeing with them on what the Bible says in a great many areas ), I can say this:

Where "logic" ( what, to God, is our human faulty understanding of Him and His ways ) ends, God's word begins.
That is what faith is about, is it not?

Believing what is written, not what we as God's children have been told about it by other men;
In other words, we bring nothing to the "table" when it comes to God teaching us and shaping our minds, except empty hands and empty presuppositions, do we not?

Since Paul only put to pen and paper what the Lord moved him to write, then what is written ( whether it seems "schizophrenic" to us or not ), is what is to be believed...
After all, it is God's word that we trust, because God, who cannot lie, tells us to ( Proverbs 3:5-6 ).

As @kyredneck stated, I think that you're missing a whole lot that is in this chapter, because it seems to me as if you're seeking to summarize it, instead of following it line by line.
I urge you to go back and read it again, and see if you pick up on the fact that Gentiles and Jews are both mentioned in detail, as well as God making us either vessels of wrath or vessels of mercy...
Which is what all believers are:

Vessels of mercy afore prepared unto glory.


May He bless you geatly in your studies.

 

The Context of this tretise from Romans 7:1, (for I speak to those who know the law) through Rom 11:12 where he says this;

Now if the fall of them (he is speaking about Israel) be the riches of the world (kosmos), and the diminishing of them (Israel) the riches of the gentiles; how much more their (Israel's) fulness?

He is finished speaking to those who know the law in particular and look what he says in the next verse.

For I speak to you gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the gentiles, I magnify my office. 14 if by any means I may provoke to emulation (Jealousy) them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 15 for if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be but life from the dead?

One must be a student of the OT and a believer of it to understand this. Paul is a Jew. This means he is of Benjamin, one of the two southern tribes of the children of Israel. The gentiles who are of his flesh here are those who were of the ten tribes of Israel who were cut off from God about 722 BC and God said they were not his people and he would not be their God, neither would he show mercy to them until he could call them the sons of God. That could not happen until the fulfillment of the prophecies concerning the Messiah who would come and take away their sins and they could experince a new birth, not of Abraham but of God.He links this whole presentation to quotes of Hosea, who was a contemporary of Isiaih. Isaiah at this same time wrote the prophecies of Jerusalem and Judah and focused much of his attention on the last days, that is the last three 1000 year days as God counts days.

When the covenant people of God are cut off from their covenants by being cast out of their land and strangers in the land to which they were driven they are reckoned by God as being as gentiles, dead and separated from him. The only reason God has been gracious to gentiles all over the world who have resisted his grace to us is because Jews and Israelites are scattered all over the world. He made a blanket promise to all the world so he can save his covenanted people, not as a nation, but as individuals.The nation of Judah, to whom Jesus came were cast out of their land in 70 AD after God gave them 40 years probation time to repent. They did not and God has raised up and formed a gentile bride from the masses who will be born agin by receiving Jesus Christ as savior.

The people in the regions that we now call Turkey in Asia Minor is where these people were in the time of the writing of the New Testament. Peter preached to the circumcision and Paul preached to all other gentiles as the beginning of the church of Jesus Christ.

 

...in no way refutes the fact that God has predestinated and elected a people "not from the Jews only, but also from the Gentiles".

There is no respect of persons with God. 2:11

 

Hos 8:8 Israel is swallowed up: now shall they be among the Gentiles as a vessel wherein is no pleasure.
Hos 8:12 I have written to him the great things of my law, but they were counted as a strange thing.
Acts 15:14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
Acts 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us;

James 1:1 is interesting as is James 1:18 considered with Rev 7:4-8 and Rev 14:1-4 ----------------- firstfruit


Sometime I am not sure what to think!

 

kyredneck, you are dead wrong about that. I say that hoping to cause you to think. God's eternal plan is accomplished through his people Israel and God had respect unto them. It was they who was bidden to the marriage supper at the end of the day at supper time, and they would not come. The householder reacted to this by going to the highways and hedges to compel individuals to come in so his house would be full. Those who come would be the bride but the one condition, they could not come in filthy rags, they must have on a wedding garment supplied by the bridegroom. The guests will be the bride. This is the teaching of Jesus in his parables.

Ex 2:25 And God looked upon the children of Israel, and God had respect unto them.

2Ki 13:23 And the LORD was gracious unto them, and had compassion on them, and had respect unto them, because of his covenant with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and would not destroy them, neither cast he them from his presence as yet.

God warns us gentiles to not puff ourselves up because of his mercy and grace to us. God has not stopped loving Israel because of her rebellion. He will yet saves her nationally. We are at the wedding because Israel would not come. What a great privilege we have to be there. Praise God.

Ho 11:1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

He also called his Son, Jesus, out of Egypt.

Ignore the OT and you will not see the truths of the NT.

 

No, I am not.

You are a KJVO Dispensationalist, and I am not wrong that there is no respect of persons with God and that He predestinated and elected a people not from the Jews only, but also from the Gentiles.

Save your essays for someone else, I don't even read them.

 

yes you are dead wrong. Have you ever considered how conflicted your argument is to argue on the one hand that you were predestined by God’s choice before creation of you over someone he did not choose and on the other to argue that God is no respecter of persons.

Maybe you don’t actually believe that. I hope not.

 

YES! I HAVE! The question and the answer are found in the chapter!

11 for the children being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth,
12 it was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 Even as it is written, Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that hath mercy. Ro 9

 

Correct. In no way is it random. It's according to the purpose of God.

11 for the children being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth,
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, For this very purpose did I raise thee up, that I might show in thee my power, and that my name might be published abroad in all the earth.
18 So then he hath mercy on whom he will, and whom he will be hardeneth. Ro 9