Featured Catholics and Faith Alone

Just want to clear up some objections people raised in past threads, but I didn’t have time to answer them all.

Catholics have always believed in Faith Alone, but our understanding of Faith is particular.

The Faith that we say saves is not just intellectual assent. Even the devils know Jesus is Lord, but that is not going to save them. The faith of mere intellectual assent won’t save you. Merely believing Jesus is your Lord and Savior intellectually, wont save you.

Trust is the next kind of “ faith “ people can have, so it’s a little more than just intellectual assent, they are trusting in Jesus Name and Power. Yet this is not the Faith that saves, as the Lord in Scripture states.

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’“

This is an important part of our Faith, to trust in Jesus power and the power of His Holy Name, but by itself it will not save you. We have all performed miracles in Jesus Name, but not in isolation.

You can have faith to move mountains as Paul states, but if you don’t have Love, you are nothing. This Faith by itself will not save you.

The Faith that we say saves is Faith acting through Love.

“For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.” Galatians 5:6

This is the highest order of Faith, not just intellectual assent or even just trust in Jesus power.

But Faith working through Love.

So a Faith which moves the will to Love others, because Love is an act of will. An obedient faith which Loves others as the Lord commands.

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”

So we have to do something by Love which is inspired by our Faith, and that Faith is a saving Faith. Love is doing, not just warm feelings towards people.

So Grace alone, Faith alone which works through Love, = salvation.

There will be “many” who merely have the lesser intellectual assent kind of faith that believe intellectually that Jesus is their Lord and Saviour and many who have the even the higher trust in Jesus power kind of faith, but all these will be condemned, if it does not manifest by Love.

So how are we judged as true Christians?

“By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

By your Love you are judged, or lack of it. Men judge that we are Christians by our love.

“ what you did for the least of these, you did for me “

Jesus judges that we are His disciples by our love.

 

You forgot to mention Calvin, who rejected intellectual assent style faith and the trust style faith divorced from love. He reckoned that these can not even be called faith at all.

Trust in Jesus power and Name can perform miracles on its own, but not of its own justify a man.

Trent only condemned intellectual assent type of faith, the new heresy that was prevalent in Protestantism.

Trent did not condemn Faith working through Love as the Church always taught. The Catholic Church is quite happy to say Faith alone, if this definition is used, even if Faith alone is not the language of Scripture.

 

Important to have the correct understanding of faith don’t you think, considering it is a salvation issue.

Paul describes a powerful type of faith that can move mountains, yet divorced from love amounts to nothing. This is a higher order of Faith than mere intellectual assent which is zero calorie, and yet it still amounts to nothing.

I liken the trust type of faith to a bloke who not only recognises a powerful horse as with intellectual assent but harnesses it to use its power for himself and to even help others. Yet he neither loves the horse or the people he helped by its power.

The Catholic Church has always taught Faith alone universally, but not the kind of faith some espouse.

Scripture tells us of a type of faith that is mighty, moves mountains, heals, casts out demons and even performs many miracles, yet it ends in condemnation.

So there are types of Faith, that are divorced from Love, otherwise scripture would not use ink warning us of them.

Trent condemned the zero calorie faith of intellectual assent on its own.

“But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

Jesus words are not just to be believed intellectually but must be put into practice, to Love others requires works of love.
What are the greatest commandments that fulfil all of the law.
Love God and Love neighbor, this requires doing, putting Jesus words into practice.
Believing in Jesus, is doing in loving obedience to His Word, not intellectual assent.

 

A lot of people have not even graduated to the higher level of faith that trusts enough to use Jesus miraculous power. Faith is still merely an intellectual exercise, still stuck on the page.

This is the earth bound eagle, not fully extending in use of its faculties, it’s wings are firmly tucked in, it is blinded to them, it ignores them completely.

 

Well, having no final arbiter of Scriptural interpretation is the gravest concern, especially when defining terms pivotal to salvation.

“We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death.”

If I was a private interpreter of scripture, my prayerful instinct would be to steer toward Faith working through Love for salvation, however, even then there is no certainty that would give peace. Scripture destroys those that misinterpret it.
Private interpreters to my mind are the ultimate thrill seekers, gambling their immortal lives rather than mortal lives.
I honestly can not understand that mindset, and I cannot call it bravery.

I think you give Trent too much credit. There seems to be a rush on both sides to find more distinctions.

Trent condemned the intellectual assent alone idea, if you aren’t in that camp, you needn’t worry.

The Catholic Church signed a joint Faith alone understanding with many Protestant traditions, which many seem not know about yet.

 

Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification - Wikipedia

 

“As of 2017, the bodies representing 75% of the world's Christians have formally affirmed the Joint Declaration“

“On 18 July 2006, the World Methodist Council, meeting in Seoul, South Korea, voted unanimously to adopt the document.[9][10]

The leadership of the World Communion of Reformed Churches—representing 80 million members of Congregational, Presbyterian, Reformed, United, Uniting and Waldensian churches—also signed the document and formally associated with it at an ecumenical prayer service on 5 July 2017.”

“In 2021, a Baptist theologian suggested that World Baptist Alliance could also assent to the Joint Declaration.”

 

From my perspective the Popery is practiced by private interpreters rather those who hold to sacred tradition and magisterium. Each makes himself the final arbiter of Scriptures interpretation.
I wasn’t having a dig, I genuinely don’t understand that mindset, I really don’t, especially on something so vitally important.
As for taking chances, nothing seems settled among the private interpreted traditions, essential and non essential doctrine and doctrines long ago settled in Apostolic Churches are constantly open for debate to this day.

Well that’s common ground to be celebrated isn’t it, considering the danger that intellectual assent represents to souls.

You don’t need Trent to tell you that faith as trust alone is dicey, we have The Lord’s own words in Scripture.
As to assurance we also have scripture, which doesn’t teach OSAS. The assurance we have is that God is Faithful and will always forgive those who genuinely repent.

Trent was an infallible Council which gives interpretive assurance, private interpretation gives the least assurance.
The irony of seeking salvation assurance before seeking interpretive assurance isn’t lost on me.
You have got to establish infallible interpretation of Scripture before you can establish anything that gives assurance.

 

In context, intellectual assent by itself is the issue.

I don’t care about Catholic apologists talking points as such, it’s a valid point about Scriptural interpretation.
You have no final arbiter of Scriptural interpretation, among all the private interpreters. You aren’t facing this problem but are deflecting.

Regarding “ diversity “ in belief in the Catholic Church, what you might be looking at is dissent, this is nothing new.

The Catholic Church is so massive that even it’s enemies take shelter in its branches. As Jesus stated in the mustard seed parable.

Without this massive Catholic tree, Protestantism and Baptist’s would be annihilated by the secular world. Protestants never stood in the arenas of Rome, never faced pagan Europe, it inherited a pacified world, it rebelled unjustly.

Sounds like Benny Hinn, the end result of Protestantism.

This is what actually convinced me. I looked for a precedent in the old covenant and I found it in Moses. Moses was very humble and conciliatory to the Protestants of his day.
They used God’s word against Gods chosen authority as well, yet Moses was humble and took it to the Lord.
Protestants can never be humble, a certain pride is at the heart of their beliefs, they will concede nothing to heal a rift. This is why I know they wrong. They are dogmatically possessed. They protested Moses “lording” it over them.
They oppose the Chair of Moses as they oppose the Chair of Peter in the new Covenant, ardent in their hatred of authority and priesthood.
Korah is the perfect old covenant Protestant, everything they accuse the Chair of Moses of they accuse the Chair of Peter of and are in rebellion against the Church.

See any denominations in Moses time? There was one chair that God established with Moses. Korah tried the each man bring his own offering, how did God receive that?

I am in awe witnessing the new covenant repeating the old covenant.

 

The question was whether bare intellectual assent of itself was enough for salvation. Many believed this false understanding and perished.

Your idea is that there is no final infallible arbiter of Scriptures interpretation, but you grant your interpretations of Scripture infallibility without officially declaring yourself infallible, you just assume it.
Not intellectually honest.
The Chair Peter has Christ’s appointment, private interpreters are the ones that self appoint. Self shepherding sheep.

The scripture Protestants first broke was Heb 13:17 “ Obey your spiritual leaders, and do what they say. Their work is to watch over your souls, and they are accountable to God. Give them reason to do this with joy and not with sorrow. That would certainly not be for your benefit.”

Luther is the Korah of the New Covenant Church, their complaint is the same.
They defy the Chair of Peter as they defied the Chair of Moses.

The both used God’s word to attack God’s chosen authority.

“we hold that this function, too, like the priesthood, belongs to all“ Luther

“all Christians, and they alone, even women, are priests“ Luther

“all the congregation are holy, every one of them, and the Lord is among them; why then do you exalt yourselves above the assembly of the Lord?” Numbers 16:3

Korah used God’s word against Moses, well God did say.

“And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.”

“Isn’t it enough that you have brought us up out of a land flowing with milk and honey to kill us in the wilderness? And now you also want to lord it over us! Moreover, you haven’t brought us into a land flowing with milk and honey or given us an inheritance of fields and vineyards. Do you want to treat these men like slaves No, we will not come!” Numbers 16:13-14

“I know that a Christian should be humble, but against the Pope I am going to be proud and say to him: "You, Pope, I will not have you for my boss, for I am sure that my doctrine is divine.” Luther

Luther did exactly as Korah did and influenced others to join in rebellion, against the priesthood of Moses and Aaron. Citing God’s word to grant themselves equality in priesthood and authority.

Luther’s rebellion is Korah’s rebellion in the new covenant Church.

 

The greatest stumbling block is none of that, it is the heresy of Sola scriptura, where each man makes himself final arbiter of Scriptures interpretation.

Sure they rejected the Catholic Church based on their opinions of scripture, but then they all rejected each other on the same basis.
A theological abyssal opened up and swallowed all of them, there was no longer a solid foundation, only subjective cracks of human opinions of scripture.

Same Bible, but thousands of conflicting subjective interpretations and doctrines. None seeming to care that they could be interpreting spiritually fatal doctrines from their subjective interpretations of scripture.
They never stop to consider that they could be the one twisting scripture to their destruction, that’s for other less inspired, less intelligent fools out there worry about.