1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Mark 15:42.

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by 37818, Jul 16, 2024.

  1. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,825
    Likes Received:
    1,363
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Mark 14:12 with Exodus 12:6-18 identifies the Jewish calendar date to be Nisan 14th.
    And based on this context of Mark 14:12-17 that is before Jesus and His disciples ate the Passover.
    Agreed.
    Mark 15:42-43, And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath, Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable counsellor, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus.

    Now the Jewish day before the 7th day Sabbath begins at sun set with our Thursday evening and ends with the Sabbath beginning with our Friday evening at sun set.

    Understand?

    Mark's first usage of "evening."
    Mark 1:32, And at even, when the sun did set, . . .
     
    #21 37818, Jul 20, 2024
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2024
  2. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2010
    Messages:
    9,773
    Likes Received:
    341
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I don't see Nisan 14th in those passages. What I do see is that the Lord partakes of Passover, and the next day (our reckoning) He is the Passover Sacrifice.

    Yes. But I was speaking from a perspective of our reckoning. That is usually the focus. Was He crucified on Wednesday, Thursday, or Friday? For those taking a literal view, it had to be Wednesday (He partakes of Passover) in order for their to be three 24 hour days (in order to fulfill the prophecy). I don't take a literal view, or, I should say, I allow for figurative speech, because He also said three days.


    God bless.
     
  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,825
    Likes Received:
    1,363
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Exodus 12:6, . . . And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: . . .
    Exodus 12:18, . . . In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month . . . .
    The first month has two names for that same month.

    In 30 AD the 14th of Nisan is reckoned to be on Wednesday. So Mark 14:12 would be understood to be Wednesday. Those who argue the crucifixion was on Wednesday also claim Mark 14:12 to have been Tuesday Nisan 13th.
     
  4. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2010
    Messages:
    9,773
    Likes Received:
    341
    Faith:
    Baptist

    God bless.
     
  5. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    7,551
    Likes Received:
    474
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I wonder.

    Was the lamb on the table the night of the Lord's supper or was the Lamb at the table?

    I'm not sure there was a lamb on the table.

    What all applied to making ready the passover?
     
  6. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    7,551
    Likes Received:
    474
    Faith:
    Baptist
    'And it hath become a charge to you, until the fourteenth day of this month, and the whole assembly of the company of Israel have slaughtered it between the evenings; Ex 12:6
    in the first month, on the fourteenth of the month, between the evenings, is the passover to Jehovah; Lev 23:5

    And it was, as it were, the sixth hour, and darkness came over all the land till the ninth hour, and the sun was darkened, and the vail of the sanctuary was rent in the midst, and having cried with a loud voice, Jesus said, 'Father, to Thy hands I commit my spirit;' and these things having said, he breathed forth the spirit. Luke 23:44-46
    cleanse out, therefore, the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, according as ye are unleavened, for also our passover for us was sacrificed -- Christ, 1 Cor 5:7

    Was the time of slaughter that is sacrificed established?

    I do not believe Christ the passover ate the sacrifice before the time of the sacrifice. Just do not believe that to be reasonable.

    What day at what time do you believe Christ ate the passover the year before he died?


    Did it matter or is all that mattered just that he died for our sins? Could he have died on August 3rd and or the Hebrew equivalent thereof?
     
  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,825
    Likes Received:
    1,363
    Faith:
    Baptist
    @percho,

    There are different points of issue.

    I tried to limit the thread to Mark 15:42.

    The Friday crucifixion tradition.
    Julian date April 7, 30 AD
    Or
    Julian date April 3, 33 AD

    The Wednesday view.
    Is based on Matthew 12:40.
    And the 14th of Nisan in 30 AD was on Julian date April 5, 30 AD.
    Mark 14:12 must be pushed back it's day before to be a Tuesday April 4.

    The Thursday crucifixion would be on the Julian date April 6, 30 AD. The 15th of Nisan. Which ends Thursday evening at sun set, so 15th of Nisan would be over so Joseph of Arimathaea being a devout Jew could obtain Jesus' body for burial. Mark 15:42-43.
     
  8. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    7,551
    Likes Received:
    474
    Faith:
    Baptist

    I understand yet we both know Mark 15:42 is just a part of the whole picture.

    IMHO the sabbath spoken of in M15:42 is the fifteenth of Nissan a holy convocation day of rest no work to be done. It is the same sabbath day spoken of in M16:1 after which the women bought spices, a regular day, therefore they could buy and sell on that day.
     
  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,825
    Likes Received:
    1,363
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Then, am I to understand you think Christ rose from the dead not on the first day of the week?

    Mark 14:12 was the 14th.
    So Mark 14:17, And in the evening, would be the beginning of the 15th.

    Exodus 12:18.
    Evening of the 14.
    Evening of the 15. Holy convocation.
    Evening of the 16.
    Evening of the 17.
    Evening of the 18.
    Evening of the 19.
    Evening of the 20.
    Evening of the 21. Holy convocation.
    So the 7 days of unleavened bread would be 14 to the 20th.
    The week of the feast would be 15 to the 21st. See Deuteronomy 16:8.

    Now,
    Evening of the 14th. Tuesday evening, Wednesday.day.

    Evening of the 15th. Holy convocation. Wednesday evening, Thursday day.

    Evening of the 16th. Thursday evening, Friday day.

    Evening of the 17th. The 7th day Sabbath, Friday evening, Saturday day.

    Evening of the 18th. 1st of the week, Saturday evening, Sunday day.
     
  10. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    7,551
    Likes Received:
    474
    Faith:
    Baptist

    Correct I believe he arose on the sabbath, There were no witnesses of Christ walking out of the tomb and or through the stone.
    Just that he was gone when they arrived on the first day of the week while it was still dark.

    I am a seventy two hour believer.

    Wednesday evening to Saturday evening.

    72 Hours would equal to an, in, on and or after three days statement.

    If I understand correctly, a part of the preparation for the fifteenth holy convocation was to remove all leaven from the house on the fourteenth therefore the seven days ran from the 15th through the 21st.
     
    #30 percho, Jul 21, 2024
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2024
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,825
    Likes Received:
    1,363
    Faith:
    Baptist
    A burial could not be done by a Jew on the 15th.
    What day of the week?
    For Mark 14:17 the following sun set was what Jewish calendar date? What Julian year? What Roman day of the week?
     
  12. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    7,551
    Likes Received:
    474
    Faith:
    Baptist

    He was buried on the 14th just as the sabbath of the 15th approached.

    M14:17 that evening would have been our Tuesday and he died on Wednesday about 3PM. That evening was the Jewish 14th.
     
  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,825
    Likes Received:
    1,363
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So Mark 15:42 should read, . . . And now when afternoon was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath, . . .
    But according to Mark 14:12 it was the 14th saying, . . the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, . . .
     
  14. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2010
    Messages:
    9,773
    Likes Received:
    341
    Faith:
    Baptist
    He would have partaken of Passover to "keep the Law."

    If Passover had been established on August 3rd, sure. But it wasn't.

    ;)


    God bless.
     
  15. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,825
    Likes Received:
    1,363
    Faith:
    Baptist
  16. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    7,551
    Likes Received:
    474
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I agree and let's say the year before when it was not yet his hour to become, Christ our passover sacrificed for us, he ate of the passover at the appointed time. However in the year he would become our passover what midnight did he do in order to eat of it? Did he have the lamb killed a day early?

    The lamb was killed between 3 and 6pm on the fourteenth. It was eaten in the evening of the 15th, the death angle came through at midnight and the departed Egypt during the night of the 15th. It was a night much to be remembered. At the Lord's supper Jesus was going to become the passover lamb the following afternoon. The Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world.

    By, DEATH? Sacrifice?

    Therefore let us keep the feast

    What feast? Who did Paul write this to? What feast - ἑορτή

    Lev 23:6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.

    LXX καὶ ἐν τῇ πεντεκαιδεκάτῃ ἡμέρᾳ τοῦ μηνὸς τούτου ἑορτὴ τῶν ἀζύμων τῷ κυρίῳ ἑπτὰ ἡμέρας ἄζυμα ἔδεσθε
     
  17. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2010
    Messages:
    9,773
    Likes Received:
    341
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Matthew 26:17-18
    King James Version

    17 Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?

    18 And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples.

    Not sure what your point is. The Lord would have partaken of the Passover according to the Law. Had He not, it could be said He did not keep the Law.


    And what is the point of the Passover originally? It kept men from dying. To not partake of Passover as prescribed by God meant death for those who did not.

    Both.

    The feast: Christ our Passover.

    Written to: the Corinthians, and in my opinion, with a focus on the leadership.


    1 Corinthians 5
    King James Version

    1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

    2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

    Open sin was not being addressed. Paul's assessment is that they are filled with pride. This may be addressing an issue of glorying in being saved to a point of conceit. It is obvious that they are not dealing with the open sin.

    7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

    8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

    The best I can say is that this is likely a reference to communion with Christ, and the call is to cast off those things that came before. To be the "new" lump/bread; to act as unleavened, because they are unleavened. Part of that is dealing with sin in the Body, something they have failed to do, and Paul rebukes their pride, pointing to this as a factor for their failure.

    Again, not sure what it is you seek to ask or say. Observing Passover is not something Gentiles are compelled to do, thus the days fall into what I would consider of less importance to the realities of what Passover was a picture of: Christ's Sacrifice in the stead of the sinner. That doesn't mean understanding these observances of Israel cannot be beneficial, but it is probably better to understand our roles in the Body as Gentiles (if we are Gentiles), because that is beneficial to our daily lives, and helps us walk according to God's will better.


    God bless.
     
  18. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    7,551
    Likes Received:
    474
    Faith:
    Baptist
    John 18:28 They led, therefore, Jesus from Caiaphas to the praetorium, and it was early, and they themselves did not enter into the praetorium, that they might not be defiled, but that they might eat the passover;

    Early on what Jewish day?
    On what day was the passover lamb killed?
    About what time of the day was the passover lamb killed?
    On what day was the passover lamb eaten? What kind of bread was eaten with the lamb? Was that the first of unleavened bread, the 15th?

    For the sake of argument let's say the death of Jesus was AD 30.

    In AD 29 on what day of the Jewish month do you believe Jesus ate the passover lamb?

    Was Jesus dead when the passover lambs were eaten the year he died?

    Was there a lamb on the table the night he was betrayed, when he broke the bread and took the cup?
     
  19. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2010
    Messages:
    9,773
    Likes Received:
    341
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I believe so.

    God bless.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  20. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,825
    Likes Received:
    1,363
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The priests during the feast of unleavened bread have 7 Passover lambs offered. Numbers 28:21.
     
Loading...