Doctrines of Unity and Divison

[Van]

I expect no Christian doctrine is accepted by everyone professing to be a Christian, but I also expect many doctrines are widely accepted by a majority of Baptists.

I hold the Baptist distinctives of the General Baptists, but certainly some of these are rejected by the Reformed or Particular Baptists.

So setting aside that major divide (Limited Atonement) among Baptists what are our common doctrines.

1. The Bible is inspired, thus in the original autographs without error.

2) The Bible is the final authority governing faith and practice. Nothing added counts for anything.

3) We believe in the Trinity, God in three Persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

4) The authority for governing our local assemblies resides with the local members and those elected by the members.

5) Priesthood of believers, we all can interface with God directly, no special persons dictate our fellowship with God.

6) The two offices of our local assemblies are Pastor (also called Elder, Overseer) and Deacon (those appointed to minister and carry out the directions of the Pastor or Elders.

7) Separation of Church and State, we are separatists in that we believe those who govern with the force of law should not dictate church doctrine. (No state church, no infringement upon our practice of our beliefs, including training our children in the way they should go.)

8) Our members are made up with believers, not children baptized as infants.

Now continuing to set aside Limited Atonement, what other Doctrines of Division do we see asserted on this Baptist board.

1) Water baptism is more than just symbolic compliance with Christ's command.

2) Adam's sin did not result in all humans being made sinners, predisposed to sin.

3) Jesus did not die on a Friday and arise on Sunday.

4) Christ returned about 70 AD

5) Jesus will not reign on David's throne on earth for 1000 years.

6) The future is totally fixed rather than God's and our actions at times alter the future outcome of lives.

I am sure there are many more as I see one unbiblical premise asserted after another from visiting posters. Which Doctrines of Unity or Division come to your minds?

 

[Van]

How about we were chosen individually for salvation before creation, rather than during our lifetime when our faith was credited as righteousness?

 

[37818]

What we as Baptist agree on, we agree on.

But what we believe differently on, are topics we should discuss. Hopefully in a peaceful manner.

 

[Deacon]

Well now, Van, you’ve added some commentary to a few of the initial Distinctive's that complicate matters - I would disagree with #2’s commentary.

2) The Bible is the final authority governing faith and practice. Nothing added counts for anything.

• This does NOT mean that the only source of knowledge are the holy Scriptures.
• It does NOT mean that sources outside of the Scriptures cannot influence our understanding of God’s word.

The statement affirms the full AUTHORITY of Scripture.

This separates the statement from the variances of interpretation.

Our Scriptures were given to us by an All-knowing God and when properly interpreted, carry his full authority.

Rob

 

[Van]

Well now, Van, you’ve added some commentary to a few of the initial Distinctive's that complicate matters - I would disagree with #2’s commentary.

• This does NOT mean that the only source of knowledge are the holy Scriptures.
• It does NOT mean that sources outside of the Scriptures cannot influence our understanding of God’s word.

The statement affirms the full AUTHORITY of Scripture.

This separates the statement from the variances of interpretation.

Our Scriptures were given to us by an All-knowing God and when properly interpreted, carry his full authority.

Rob

Maybe I was not clear, I was speaking that nothing added outside scripture nullifies the governing authority of what is in scripture for faith and practice. It is an orthodox view, in my opinion.

 

[Van]

Another Doctrine of Division is Soul Liberty, the General Baptist Distinctive that the lost are able to accept or reject some spiritual things like the milk of the gospel. And of course the Reformed Baptists would hold an incompatible view.

 

[Van]

Another Doctrine of Division is the view of how did God create humanity.

Once side says humans as created were either "My sheep" those chosen before creation to be saved, and "Goats" those not chosen and predestined to damnation.

On the other side, the viewpoint is that God created humans, anticipating the Fall, then as a consequence of the Fall God "prepared them for destruction." In this view, all humanity was simply "the sheep," not "My Sheep" but also not "Goats."

Two radically different views. During their physical lifetime "the sheep" either die without mercy, as condemned, becoming "Goats" or "receive" the mercy of reconciliation through the blood of the Lamb, thus becoming "My Sheep. See Romans 9:22-23.

The Fall prepared "the sheep" for destruction, and providing Christ as the means of reconciliation prepared for some of "the sheep" to become vessels of mercy.

 

[Van]

What we as Baptist agree on, we agree on.

But what we believe differently on, are topics we should discuss. Hopefully in a peaceful manner.

Here appears a perfectly reasonable viewpoint, people seeking unity to more effectively evangelize should discuss and reason together to reach a common understanding of issues currently held that significantly differ.

But is that what we observe on our Baptist Board? Nope

When one side or the other is demolished by sound exegesis, the side holding the unbiblical view simply posts "taint so" and uses logical fallacy arguments such as flooding the discussion with word salads or against the person insults.

 

[Van]

Doctrines of Division we see asserted on this Baptist board.

1) Water baptism is more than just symbolic compliance with Christ's command.

2) Adam's sin did not result in all humans being made sinners, predisposed to sin.

3) Jesus did not die on a Friday and arise on Sunday.

4) Christ returned about 70 AD

5) Jesus will not reign on David's throne on earth for 1000 years.

6) The future is totally fixed rather than God's and our actions at times alter the future outcome of lives.

7) General Baptist Distinctive that the lost are able to accept or reject some spiritual things like the milk of the gospel. And of course the Reformed Baptists would hold an incompatible view.

8) Humans created as preselected "My sheep" and "Goats" verse humans created as "the sheep with an opportunity to become "My sheep" or otherwise upon physical death classified as "goats." headed for destruction.

9) The view that Christ did not lay down His life as a ransom for all, but died only for those supposedly chosen before creation.

It seems that very little acknowledgement of error is possible, thus the process of attempted discussion may actually hinder spiritual growth.

 

[Van]

Here is my list of Christian mythologies, held by those who seem to have been indoctrinated rather than trained to study.

1) Water baptism accomplishes more than getting wet as commanded by Christ for public witness.

2) All people are not conceived in sin, separated from God due to unholiness, with no ability to restore the relationship.

3) Jesus will not reign on David's throne on earth for 1000 years.

4) The future is totally fixed and we have no ability to alter our predestined outcome for ourselves or our loved ones.

5) The lost cannot hear understand and learn some spiritual things, the milk of the gospel.

6) Christ did not die as a ransom for all people, becoming the means of reconciliation for the whole of humanity.

 

[Van]

When some says God is all knowing, did you ever ask what is God all knowing about, everything imaginable, the non-contextual guess, or whatever is contextually in view?

Consider this verse:

John 16:30 NASB
“Now we know that You know all things, and that You have no need for anyone to question You; this is why we believe that You came forth from God.”
​

The text actually reads, you know all, and you have no need... Jesus knew all about those He interacted with, what was on their minds and their hidden agendas.

Contextually, is the idea that Jesus knows everything imaginable, or that Jesus knows all about the Father, and Jesus knows what the person is going to ask, and his or her motivation, before they ask.

But where study is needed to discern the least a vague word or phrase was intended to mean, myth makers will expand the scope without regard for context.