Where is this other Jewish Calendar?

[GentleGospeller]

Does not change history. Mark 14:12 being the 14th of Nisan. Or John 12:1-2, 6 days before was not a Sabbath day. That the 14th of Nisan was not a Friday.

You are mistaken. The 14th was the 6th day (aka 'friday'), and John 12:1-2 was indeed the seventh day sabbath, but you do not seem willing enough to put away a preconceived ideology, so when that happens I will be glad to show you all you need, but until then, you are free to believe what you will irrespective of lots of historical material and scripture, to the contrary.

 

[GentleGospeller]

Give me this correct Jewish Calendar for it's year. And it's Hebrew Year. Or hold your peace.

You did not come to learn, but to teach.

 

[37818]

In John's gospel account three Passovers are mentioned.

With the understanding in the fifteenth year 14 AD to between 27 AD to 28 AD. The three Passovers 28 AD, 29:AD with 30 being the Passover of the crucifixion.

 

[37818]

You are mistaken. The 14th was the 6th day (aka 'friday'),

Impossible. Mark 14:12 was the 14th of Nisan.

 

[JonC]

14 AD was counted as year one. 15 AD would be year two. 29 AD would be the 16th year. 28 AD is the 15th year. After the 14th year, 27 AD. So between 27 AD to 28 AD is in the 15th year.
14 AD is year one In not after the fifteenth year. zero. So between 14 AD to 15 AD is in the second year.

Even if 14 AD was counted as year 1 (which has been debated) 14 AD would not be the 2nd year...which os what you claimed to get your dates "right".

In the second year was 14 AD.. So 27 AD. . . .

If we count September 17, 14 AD to Devember 31st 30 AD as 1 year then Jan 1, 28 AD through Dec 31, 29 AD would be the 15th year.

This we can know because we know the Julian Calendar (the Hebrew Calendar was a ceremonial calendar).

If Scripture is correct (John's record of seperate Pasdovers during Jesus' earthly ministry) then the earliest possible year for the Crucifixion, based on your calculation of years) would be 32 AD.


You are too early.

"In the 15th year of Tiberius' reign" means in the 15th year of Tiberius's reign....not between the 14th and 15th year (which is nonsense as he ruled from September 14 AD to March 37 AD).

 

[GentleGospeller]

Impossible. ...

Like I said, you did not come to learn but to teach. Therefore, I leave you with what you already came with, 'you'.

 

[percho]

for he was teaching his disciples, and he said to them, 'The Son of Man is being delivered to the hands of men, and they shall kill him, and having been killed [to] the third day he shall rise,' Mark 9:31 YLT

John 11:9 YLT Jesus answered, 'Are there not twelve hours in the day? if any one may walk in the day, he doth not stumble, because the light of this world he doth see;

I wonder; If Jesus meant after being killed, three of those days spoken of in John 11:9?

Nope that would not coincide with Matt 12:40 or maybe it would.

I wonder what sabbath was past when the women bought the spices?


Wonder, wonder, wonder!

 

[JonC]

Another interesting issue is the Pharisees vs the Sadducees.

The Pharisees believed that ceremonies belonged to the people while Sadducees believed that ceremonies belonged to the Temple.

This resulted in conflicting dates and times (both were observed by the people as their practices relied on individual observation but their religion was centered on the Temple).

Since the Pharisees celebrated the Passover immediately (Nisan 13/14) while the Sadducees waited until the usual time (Nisan 14/15) we can't definitively know the time of Mark except how it fits with other passages.

Galileans slew their lambs on Nisan 13, and the Feast of Unleavened Bread lasted eight days whereas the Judeans celebrated on Nisan 14.

There is also the difficulty of the observation of days between Galilean (and Pharisees) and Judean Jews (and Sadducees).

 

[37818]

@JonC,
Three issues.
1) Our Biblical record of Christ's crucifixion.
2) An actual Hebrew Calendar year for those historical events.
3) Corroboration to actual dates.

 

[37818]

Like I said, you did not come to learn but to teach. Therefore, I leave you with what you already came with, 'you'.

Please, where is your correct Hebrew Calendar?
You have argued I have the wrong calendar. Please show the correct calendar.

 

[37818]

Like I said, you did not come to learn but to teach. Therefore, I leave you with what you already came with, 'you'.

Why did I say the 6th day of the week was not possible?

Mark 14:12 is the 14th of Nisan.

 

[37818]

You did not come to learn, but to teach.

You are making claims of a teaching.

But then you do not answer, but accuse.

Give me this correct Jewish Calendar for it's year. And it's Hebrew Year.

 

[JonC]

@JonC,
Three issues.
1) Our Biblical record of Christ's crucifixion.
2) An actual Hebrew Calendar year for those historical events.
3) Corroboration to actual dates.

That is not an issue at all.

Let's suppose Jesus was baptized in the 15th year (actual reign) of Tiberius. Let's suppose Jesus had a 3 to 3 1/2 earthly ministry.

Let's suppose the moon was observed as calculated.

Mark - Jesus sent disciples to the city in the evening when the Passover was being killed (the Galilean Passover observance on 13 Nisan). Jesus arrived when even had come and ate the Last Supper.

Jesus was arrested. Early on 14 Nisan (before Temple sacrifices as this is a day of preperation not only for the Sabbath....which this year was a high day....but also for Passover observance).

Jesus was crucified and laid in a nearby tomb before this "high Sabbath" (this would be Friday 14 Nisan).

Jesus arose early on the 1st day of the week.


The pros here is it fits with actual historical record, it fits with Luke's time of Jesus' baptism, it fits with Jesus' culture, and it fits with all four Gospels. It also fits with the post-Talmudic calendar you love so well.

 

[37818]

Jesus was crucified and laid in a nearby tomb before this "high Sabbath" (this would be Friday 14 Nisan).

Contradicts Mark 14:12 being, . . . And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, . . . Being itself the 14th of Nisan. And which being the day before Christ was crucified.

 

[37818]

and John 12:1-2 was indeed the seventh day sabbath, but you do not seem willing enough to put away a preconceived ideology, so when that happens I will be glad to show you all you need, but until then, you are free to believe what you will irrespective of lots of historical material and scripture, to the contrary.

John 12:2 was not a Sabbath, ". . . they made him a supper; and Martha served . . . ."

 

[GentleGospeller]

John 12:2 was not a Sabbath, ". . . they made him a supper; and Martha served . . . ."

It indeed was the sabbath, but you desire to teach still, and not learn.

Look up the word for "made" as it means simply 'to provide'. Neither providing a meal, nor serving (meaning to minister, ministering) that meal (as one does for an honoured guest as Jesus was) is not a violation of the Sabbath, for as Jesus demonstrated on numerous occasions, ministry on sabbath is in harmony with it, not against it. You are greatly confused and seem to be under the impression you can think no wrong. Very dangeorus place to be. I have sounded warning to you, but it is your prerogative to listen or no. I leave you with 'you'.

 

[37818]

It indeed was the sabbath, but you desire to teach still, and not learn.

Look up the word for "made" as it means simply 'to provide'. . . .

εποιησαν
Your source please.
I understand,
. . . Martha served . . . . So it wasn't a Sabbath.

 

[JonC]

Contradicts Mark 14:12 being, . . . And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, . . . Being itself the 14th of Nisan. And which being the day before Christ was crucified.

No, it doesn't. Re-read my post.

It contradicts your theory, but your theory is unbiblical when it comes to the Gospel of John.

Under your theory how can the Passover fall on the Sabbath after the crucifixion?


John 19:14-15
Now it was the day of preparation for the Passover; it was about the sixth hour. And he said to the Jews, “Behold, your King!”
So they cried out, “Away with Him, away with Him, crucify Him!” Pilate *said to them, “Shall I crucify your King?” The chief priests answered, “We have no king but Caesar.”


My view agrees with Mark 14 - it was the 1st day of unleavened bread. BUT it also agrees with John 19 - He was crucified on 14 Nisan.



You simply pick which passage to contradicts while I see no contradiction at all.

 

[37818]

No, it doesn't. Re-read my post.

That is not an issue at all.

Let's suppose Jesus was baptized in the 15th year (actual reign) of Tiberius. Let's suppose Jesus had a 3 to 3 1/2 earthly ministry.

Let's suppose the moon was observed as calculated.

Mark - Jesus sent disciples to the city in the evening when the Passover was being killed (the Galilean Passover observance on 13 Nisan). Jesus arrived when even had come and ate the Last Supper.

Jesus was arrested. Early on 14 Nisan (before Temple sacrifices as this is a day of preperation not only for the Sabbath....which this year was a high day....but also for Passover observance).

Jesus was crucified and laid in a nearby tomb before this "high Sabbath" (this would be Friday 14 Nisan).

Jesus arose early on the 1st day of the week.


The pros here is it fits with actual historical record, it fits with Luke's time of Jesus' baptism, it fits with Jesus' culture, and it fits with all four Gospels. It also fits with the post-Talmudic calendar you love so well.

We understand the text being interrupted differently.

It contradicts your theory, but your theory is unbiblical when it comes to the Gospel of John.

Under your theory how can the Passover fall on the Sabbath after the crucifixion?

From my perspective, my view is not theory. I cannot cause you to understand my Biblical view.

John 19:14-15
Now it was the day of preparation for the Passover; it was about the sixth hour. And he said to the Jews, “Behold, your King!”
So they cried out, “Away with Him, away with Him, crucify Him!” Pilate *said to them, “Shall I crucify your King?” The chief priests answered, “We have no king but Caesar.”

This is 6 AM Roman time.


See Numbers 28:16-25. Only here in verse 22 adds it's sin offering to the Passover.

Hebrews 10:1 explains the.Law on this.

 

[JonC]

We understand the text being interrupted differently.

From my perspective, my view is not theory. I cannot cause you to understand my Biblical view.

This is 6 AM Roman time.


See Numbers 28:16-25. Only here in verse 22 adds it's sin offering to the Passover.

Hebrews 10:1 explains the.Law on this.

I understand that each of us believes our view is correct. But that does not mean it is also not a theory.

How do you reconcile John's statement that the Passover was the day after the Roman's tried Jesus with your insistence Passover had already occurred?