Where is this other Jewish Calendar?

[JonC]

Yes. For different proposed years. Only one can be correct.

No. Different days as well.

The year method did changed throughout the Biblical Calendar until standardized.

But that was not the reason for the different calendars.

We (those who have bothered to study) know several times, before and after Christ, that Nisan 1 began late because of a lack of observation or dispute within the Sanhedrin (Gamaliel II, for example).

What you have proven without a doubt is that you do not believe the crucifixion occurred in real history.

 

[37818]

No. Different days as well.

The phases of the moon defining which month is which month in a particular year. The phases of the moon is per the year. In 31 AD one Julian calendar but two possible Hebrew calendars. Only one can be correct.

 

[percho]

I also believe it was the preperation day (14th) followed by the 15th, and the 15th was a Sabbath (7 th day of the week) which was also a "high day" and the "Passover".

Scripture is fairly clear that the crucifixion was on a Friday. Before Friday would have Jesus rising on a day other than the 3rd day. And we know He rose on the 1st day of the week.


The question becomes whether we believe that the Gospels record 1st century historical events or were referencing the OT to provide a timeline.

My opinion is that the Gospels recorded what occurred (what they observed) in the 1st century AD and that the crucifixion occurred at a moment in history (a real historical event).

The opposing view is that the Gospel accounts ignored 1st century historical events, what was actually occurring in and around Jerusalem, and instead used the OT as a type of code to date the events surrounding the crucifixion.

Where does the word of God say he, "rose ie was made alive out of the dead ones," the first day of the week? I believe that was, the state of Jesus, early morning while yet dark on the first day of the week but not necessarily when he was made alive out of the dead ones.

And the sabbath having past, Mary the Magdalene, and Mary of James, and Salome, bought spices, that having come, they may anoint him, Mark 16:1

With a doubt after the women saw where they laid Jesus just before the beginning of a sabbath and after that sabbath was past the women bought spices and prepared them.

We are also told that, the women rested the sabbath, per the command, after preparing spices.

That can only happen if there is a day of rest, no work, followed by a work day, followed by another day of work, no work.

He was gone from the tomb when they got there because he had been raised, the third day.

The third of a day like spoken of here.

Jesus answered, 'Are there not twelve hours in the day? if any one may walk in the day, he doth not stumble, because the light of this world he doth see;

Friday to while still dark on Sunday ain't going to get it.

 

[JonC]

Where does the word of God say he, "rose ie was made alive out of the dead ones," the first day of the week? I believe that was, the state of Jesus, early morning while yet dark on the first day of the week but not necessarily when he was made alive out of the dead ones.

And the sabbath having past, Mary the Magdalene, and Mary of James, and Salome, bought spices, that having come, they may anoint him, Mark 16:1

With a doubt after the women saw where they laid Jesus just before the beginning of a sabbath and after that sabbath was past the women bought spices and prepared them.

We are also told that, the women rested the sabbath, per the command, after preparing spices.

That can only happen if there is a day of rest, no work, followed by a work day, followed by another day of work, no work.

He was gone from the tomb when they got there because he had been raised, the third day.

The third of a day like spoken of here.

Jesus answered, 'Are there not twelve hours in the day? if any one may walk in the day, he doth not stumble, because the light of this world he doth see;

Friday to while still dark on Sunday ain't going to get it.

Friday before sundown (Jews bury before subdown) to Sunday (technically this could be Saturday after sundown) would make the 1st day of the week the "3rd day", "three days and nights".

 

[JonC]

The phases of the moon defining which month is which month in a particular year. The phases of the moon is per the year. In 31 AD one Julian calendar but two possible Hebrew calendars. Only one can be correct.

No. There was one Hebrew Calendar at the time, but reckoned two different ways. The main difference being the start of the day (how the day was measured).

The Hebrew date was identical (14 Nisan) but exactly when that day was reckoned to begin was different.

The Galilean method and Judean method differed per 1st century historical rabbinic writings.

Your date assumes Mark was speaking of the practice of one sect and not the other. But we cannot know this to be true.


This gets more complicated because most Jews observed the practices of the Pharisees nut also by necessity (the importance of the Temple in the Hebrew faith) the Sadducees.


If you were a Jew you most likely attended a synagogue and that was central to your daily life. But you would also observe the Temple ceremonies because the Temole (although you knew was corrupt) was the center of your faith until 70 AD.

 

[JonC]

@37818

The issue is not your, or my, opinion about a probable date.

The issue is your insistence that we can know the exact date even though your date is based on many assumptions.

I have no problem with people believing that the crucifixion occurred in 27 AD, 30 AD, 31 AD, 33 AD or 34 AD. That does not concern me at all.

What does concern me ate Chriatians that can only accept the Crucifixion to be a historical event if they know the exact date.

It also concerns me when Christians proclaim they have knowledge of the exact date Jesus was born, died, or will return. The reason is it misplaced our faith.

 

[37818]

The Galilean method and Judean method differed per 1st century historical rabbinic writings.

Extra Biblical.

No. There was one Hebrew Calendar at the time, but reckoned two different ways.

For 31 AD we have two different Hebrew calendars offered to us.

Nisan 14th, Julian date Monday March 26, 31 AD. Or Julian date Wednesday April 25, 31 AD. Only one would be correct for Nisan 14th in 31 AD.

 

[37818]

I have no problem with people believing that the crucifixion occurred in 27 AD, 30 AD, 31 AD, 33 AD or 34 AD. That does not concern me at all.

Most proposed dates can be shown to not be possible. Only one can be correct. The New Testament is our primary evidence. Extra Biblical sources, where used, need to be given in some accessable way.

 

[JonC]

Extra Biblical.
For 31 AD we have two different Hebrew calendars offered to us.

Nisan 14th, Julian date Monday March 26, 31 AD. Or Julian date Wednesday April 25, 31 AD. Only one would be correct for Nisan 14th in 31 AD.

Oh...I doubt it is 31 AD. The date comes up because scholars place AD 31 as the earliest possible date for the crucifixion based on Tiberius' reign.

But the issue is your calculations cannot calculate the weather conditions in 31 AD. You do not know if the messenger saw the crescent moon.

Same with 30 AD, 32 AD, and 33 AD. We know the lunar cycles but cannot know 1st century observation of those cycles.


This is why understanding the Hebrew calendars is vital to exploring possible dates. It reminds us that knowing for a fact an exact date is impossible because of the method used to determine the day was not a calculated method.

 

[JonC]

Most proposed dates can be shown to not be possible. Only one can be correct. The New Testament is our primary evidence. Extra Biblical sources, where used, need to be given in some accessable way.

You are kidding.....right? I repeatedly gave you the 1st century sources about the differences between Jewish sects.

Are you telling me that you simply tried to work out a date without even reading qst century sources (sources from the time you are trying to work out)???!!!!


It appears to me you read the OT ceremonial calendar, dismissed changes during the Exile and the Hasmonean period, dismissed differences between Jewish sects, dismissed 1st century accounts, dismissed instances where the year started late, dismissed the Talmudic Hebrew Calendar, and simply applied the calculated calendar to the 1st century using the OT ceremonial calendar.

 

[JonC]

I look at it this way....IF Jesus arose on Sunday (night Saturday time early Sunday morning):

Day 1 - Friday before sunset.
Day 2 - Friday from sunset to Saturday sundown.
Day 3 - Saturday sundown to Sunday sundown.

Then Jesus had to be crucified on Friday.

Sunday is the 3rd day. Scripture says "on", NOT "after" the 3rd day.

And this is consistent with the Biblical use of "three days and three nights" as shown in Esther's fast.

 

[37818]

You are kidding.....right? I repeatedly gave you the 1st century sources about the differences between Jewish sects.

You repeatedly made such claims.
Which is meaningless without source material.

 

[37818]

The earliest proposed crucifixion date is Julian date Friday April 7, 30 AD. This was reported before Julian date Friday April 3, 33 AD was proposed.

 

[JonC]

You repeatedly made such claims.
Which is meaningless without source material.

Dude.....I gave you the references several times in other threads. I gave you the reference in this thread. You simply ignore them and say they were not given. That is wrong.


Here are a few more you will just ignore.


I was wondering, you said Nissan 14 could never be a Friday.

How do you explain the following Jewish Laws?

If Passover eve occurs on Shabbat eve, when the Paschal lamb must be offered even earlier to ensure that it will be roasted before the onset of Shabbat...

How exactly does Pasdover eve , when they kill the Pasdover....fall on Shabbat eve without falling on a Friday?


You object to the Biblical Hebrew Calendar because it starts the month based on the witness of two people rather than calculation.

How do you explain the Jewish laws concerning the need of witnesses testifying to have seen the moon to determine the start of the month?

How do you calculate that weather permitted those people to view the moon?


the court would accept testimony to determine the start of the month from any person, as all are presumed to be qualified witnesses, absent any disqualifying factors.

 

[JonC]

The earliest proposed crucifixion date is Julian date Friday April 7, 30 AD. This was reported before Julian date Friday April 3, 33 AD was proposed.

Yes. And it could be true if Jesus' earthly ministry was about 6 months.

How long do you believe Jesus' earthly ministry lasted?

 

[37818]

Dude.....I gave you the references several times in other threads.

Please give one of the links here.

 

[37818]

Yes. And it could be true if Jesus' earthly ministry was about 6 months.

How long do you believe Jesus' earthly ministry lasted?

A minimum of some months over 2 years. Less than 3 years.

 

[JonC]

A minimum of some months over 2 years. Less than 3 years.

Interesting.

For Jesus to have been Baptised IN the 15th year of Tiberius' reign (between Aug 19 28 AD and Aug 19 29 AD, a montg later for official reign) and to have died April 30 AD the most you can get is 1 year 8 months (1 year 7 months for your date).

But then we have to consider when in the year He would have been most likely baptized. Given John the Baptist's ministry we are looking at the Spring.

So you get the Spring of 29 AD to the Spring of 30 AD.

This is why early supporters of 30 AD insist His earthly ministry was about 1 year.

 

[JonC]

Please give one of the links here.

I already gave you sources. You ignored them. I'm not wasting my time giving them again.

Sorry, but this non-relevant subject is boring. I only kept it up because I was....well....more bored than the topic.

 

[JonC]

Thread closed due to length