Featured OSAS Trap

...and the creature being born has absolutely zilch to do with either one, 'who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.'

Very good! It has everything to do with being born from above. i,e., born from Jerusalem above, born of God, born of the Spirit, begotten of God.

3 Jesus answered and said to him, 'Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God;'
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, 'How is a man able to be born, being old? is he able into the womb of his mother a second time to enter, and to be born?'
5 Jesus answered, 'Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born of water, and the Spirit, he is not able to enter into the reign of God;
6 that which hath been born of the flesh is flesh, and that which hath been born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 'Thou mayest not wonder that I said to thee, It behoveth you to be born from above;
8 the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.'

 

Egad, that's been routinely done for years on this board, between supposed 'Baptists'. I consider @Cathode an interesting character (he's a very self-reliant type) and he's been well behaved.

 

???

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned. Mk 16

38 And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 For to you is the promise, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call unto him.
40 And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation. Acts 2

20 that aforetime were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water:
21 which also after a true likeness doth now save you, even baptism, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ; 1 Pet 3

 

I don't mind the diverse opinions, or the discussion. I read Aquinas, and always check into First Things. Pope Benedict even wrote one of the best papers on the Trinity I have read. I understand the idea of dialogue and I have even been criticized at church for being too charitable to Catholicism. But on First Things or Conciliar Post you don't find the type of stuff you see on here. You don't even find that if you watch "Coming Home". I don't think the excuse that it has always gone on among Baptists on here is a good excuse. I think I may take a break from this for a while.

 

Again, according to many supposed 'Baptists' on this board over the years, yes, we live 'under a constant threat of being cast into Hell', @Charlie24 for one.

 

I've done it several times over the years. It's easy to get wrapped up into this and start taking oneself too seriously.

 

"Baptismal regeneration is the name given to doctrines held by the Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Lutheran, Anglican churches, and other Protestant denominations which maintain that salvation is intimately linked to the act of baptism, without necessarily holding that salvation is impossible apart from it. Etymologically, the term means "being born again" (regeneration, or rebirth) "through baptism" (baptismal). Etymology concerns the origins and root meanings of words, but these "continually change their meaning, ... sometimes moving out of any recognisable contact with their origin ... It is nowadays generally agreed that current usage determines meaning."[1] While for Reformed theologian Louis Berkhof, "regeneration" and "new birth" are synonymous,[2] Herbert Lockyer treats the two terms as different in meaning in one publication,[3] but in another states that baptism signifies regeneration.[a]
The term is associated by some with John 3:1–21, where Jesus tells Nicodemus, a Pharisee and member of the Jewish ruling council, that "unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God ... unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God".[5]

Churches originating out of the American Restoration Movement, mainly the Churches of Christ, are also commonly believed to hold to this doctrine, though they dispute this to be the case. One author from the Churches of Christ describes the relationship between faith and baptism this way, "Faith is the reason why a person is a child of God; baptism is the time at which one is incorporated into Christ and so becomes a child of God" (italics are in the source).[6]...."

Baptismal regeneration - Wikipedia

 

We Baptists are a mixed bag, thank God it's Him that sorts us out and not the denomination!

 

If the RCC was guided by the Holy Spirit then they would not be in disagreement with scripture would they. You are delusional when you make your false claims and add doctrines not found in scripture.

The canon was established over time by Christians as they accepted the various writing of the apostles as scripture. This process began in the the first century when Peter called Paul's letters scripture 2 Peter 3:15-16.
We also know there were various lists of accepted books; 8 by Clement of Rome A.D. 95, 15 by Polycarp A.D. 108, Ignatius of Antioch acknowledged about seven books A.D. 115, Irenaeus mentioned 21 books A.D. 185, Hippolytus recognized 22 books A.D. 170-235. So we see that the canon was not established by the RCC as you suppose but rather by Christians over time as they accepted books as scripture.

I have never considered myself to be infallible in my interpretation, I am not arrogant like your Pope and bishops. They have placed themselves in the position as final authority of the interpretation of scripture. But we can see that they fail at that when they introduce non-biblical views into your doctrine.

 

We know better now, we know MORE than the ancients did about God.

4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. Dan 12

You're conflating 'born from above' with 'saved', the two are not the same.

 

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Rom 10:13 For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved."

Act 16:30 And he brought them out and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
Act 16:31 So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Baptism does not save a person. They are baptized because they believe.

 

Scripture quite clearly states otherwise. You make the same gross error as Catholics and non-Catholics alike, you take 'save' to mean in the eternal sense, i.e., 'save from hell'.

 

See. That's good information. There you can see the possibility of some common ground or at least ground for discussion. You can begin to understand each other. But when someone states a position for Baptismal Regeneration where they state that the actual act of doing so does constitute one's salvation, with no effort to explain other scriptures which make no mention of this being a part of salvation, and no thought is even given to those of us with a presupposition that the scripture record on this would be of importance - you quickly are at an impasse, with nothing else to say.

 

Where did I say such a thing?

[add]

ohhh, post 147, never mind. they're not my words, which I disagree with.

 

Well that explains why you have such a mistaken theological view.

So if not save from hell what are they saved from?

 

Actually since I’ve walked away from the Roman Catholic Church and was finally united thru regeneration with Christ, I’ve been able to minimalize my sin to swearing when I’m angry at something. When I was a Roman Catholic, I’d go the confession, regurgitating the sins that I repeatedly acted out and felt better due to a cathartic experience. That never gave me peace, it was like being an alcoholic who knows that drinking is bad for you, goes to an AA meeting but never stops his destructive behavior. Only the Holy Spirit can change your race to the bottom and so I believe that Regeneration, (the born again experience) must come 1st. As quoted by the Lord Himself, “You must be born again”

 

It is my preference to cut out the middleman and go directly to the source. I’m fairly certain that a priest can and often does offer advice however they are only falllible human beings and apt to get it wrong. I had a NYC priest once tell me to punch someone in the face… LOL, I did not follow that advice. Still, I had a Franciscan priest who cried with me because he sensed my sorrow at loosing a child… which I appreciated. So I’m not saying Confession is not therapy because sometimes it is, rather I’m saying it is a key component in separating the RCC from my now Baptist theology that I much prefer.