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Featured The Sin Nature

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Charlie24, Nov 3, 2024.

  1. Charlie24

    Charlie24 Active Member

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    The material on the "sin nature" in this OP is provided by Kenneth Wuest (1893-1961), former professor of the "New Testament Greek," Moody Bible Institute.

    It's vital that we grasp an understanding of the sin nature in order to build a foundation in which to approach this all important chapter 6 of Romans. This is what I will attempt to do in the OP, and hopefully, Lord willing, we can move on into the chapter with a better understanding of exactly what the great apostle is teaching us.

    Mr. Wuest gives us the definition of the sin nature.

    "The sin or evil nature is actually the Adamic nature which imprisoned man at the fall. It has poisoned the entirety of the human race and for all time. It is the nature which encourages sin and which against, man is powerless.

    At Calvary Jesus broke the hold of this deadly yoke. However, He did allow it to remain, but powerless. Its remaining is a disciplinary measure. If the Believer correctly follows Christ, there is no problem; however, if we yield to temptation and sin, and then try to overcome in the flesh, the sin nature comes alive with serious consequences.

    So, in this chapter we will study this all important subject of sin in the life of the Christian, why it is there, and the victory afforded by Christ -- the only victory there is incidentally."

    The Christian and the Sin Nature

    When the medical profession speaks of a disease germ that has not yet been isolated, it means that germ has never been identified and thus isolated from those germs which are known. Since that germ has never been identified, medicine has not been able to discover a remedy for it. Once the germ has been isolated, a remedy can usually be found. This is the case of the Believer.

    The Christian who has never isolated the evil nature -- that is, who has not discovered the Truth of Romans Chapter 6 where God through the Apostle Paul describes the inner change which occurs at the moment he is saved, and also the Christians adjustment to this inner change, does not have consistent victory over it. But when in the Christian's thinking, this matter is cleared up and this nature isolated, he has the remedy which will enable him to gain consistent victory over sin in his life.

    The Bible has thus isolated the germ called sin; identifying it as the fallen nature received of Adam. This nature remains in the individual even after God has saved him, as we learn from 1 John 1:8,

    "If we say that we have no sin (sin nature), we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

    God, in salvation breaks the power of this sinful nature over the Believer, but leaves it in him as a disciplinary measure. When the Believer refuses its behests, saying a complete "Yes" to Jesus Christ, he glorifies God, defeats Satan, and grows in spiritual strength and stature.

    If the Believer expects to to gain consistent victory over this nature, He must know two things: A. What God has done in his inner being with regard to that nature; B. What adjustments it is necessary for him to make in relation to it. These two things Paul takes up in chapter 6, which we are now studying.

    Sorry for the long post, just one more thing concerning the approach to Chapter 6, as we learn how to learn from the Apostle Paul. Mr. Wuest continues.

    The first thing we must settle, regards the word "sin." Does it refer here to acts of sin committed by the Believer, or to the depraved nature (sin nature) still in him?

    Inasmuch as the definite article appears before the word "sin" in the Greek Text, in other words, "the sin" this means we are referring here to the sin nature, actually to sin reigning as a king (Rom. 5:21).

    Every time the word "sin" is used in this Chapter 6 as a noun, if the reader will substitute the words "sinful nature" or "sin nature" in its place, interpretation will be much easier.

    Hopefully we can build a foundation on what Mr. Wuest has here given us. And If anyone would like to go into this Chapter 6 of Romans to understand exactly what Paul is saying about this sin nature, let's do it!
     
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  2. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    There are two main concepts in the OP that I believe are being combined in error - being "sold under sin" and "sin nature".

    I appreciate and agree with the OP's emphasis on sin as it applies to every aspect of our lives.

    But I strongly disagree that "sin" in the passages presented should be changed to "sin nature".

    Sin reigning is in this verse:

    The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death . . .

    I'd say we have a human nature....are "flesh". Jesus became flesh (our nature).

    Do you believe that "sin" in that through Adam's sin death entered the world should be translated "sin nature"?
     
  3. Charlie24

    Charlie24 Active Member

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    "Being sold under sin" and "the sin nature" is the same concept.

    The result of being sold under sin is the sin nature.

    Rom. 5:20, ...where sin abounded..., does not have the Greek definite article before it. Therefore it would be interpreted as a verb, the acts of sin.

    Rom. 5:21 That sin has reigned unto death..., has the Greek definite article, and the word "sin" is a noun, "the sin nature."

    Rom. 5:21 is where Paul began to use the Greek definite article.
     
  4. Charlie24

    Charlie24 Active Member

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    It would have been clear and easy to understand if the translators had placed the Greek definite articles in the context.

    You see, Paul didn't use the definite article all the way through the entire 6th Chapter of Romans. But Kenneth Wuest points out that if you use it while reading the Chapter it will be much easier to understand.
     
  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I'm not sure that being easier to understands equates to being more accurate.

    The assumption is that this "sin" is a "nature".

    I'll give an example.

    It may be in the nature of a man to lust. He is tempted by the flesh. But that does not necessarily equate to sin.

    The flesh is, however, opposed to the spiritual. We see this in Jesus' temptation. Jesus did not submit when tempted by the flesh (for example, hunger). He set His eyes on spiritual things, on the will of God rather than the desires of the flesh.

    I just find it difficult to use "sin nature" because Scripture uses "flesh" and it sounds odd to say that Jesus had a "sin nature". But I get your point, as it also sounds odd to say He became sin, or came in the likeness of sinful flesh.
     
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  6. Charlie24

    Charlie24 Active Member

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    This is where we need to get into the Chapter where Paul associates "the flesh" with the sin nature.

    The sin nature is an on-going conflict because of the weakness of the flesh, the flesh is where the sin nature abounds. When we yield to the temptation the sin nature takes its natural course of sin. But will lie dormant if we refuse the temptation. This is where Paul introduce "walking in the Spirit" to defy the sin nature of it's natural course.
     
  7. Charlie24

    Charlie24 Active Member

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    Rom. 6 and Gal. 5 go hand in hand, you can't discuss one without the other to complete the understanding.

    When both these chapters are put together and explained, then the understanding comes together.

    As I told you before this is not easy and must be explained together.

    This is also the reason the sin nature is not very well understood in the Church.
     
  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I think there are several reasons "sin nature" is not understood, to include (as you indicate) going to a few passages at the expense of others that address the topic.
     
  9. Charlie24

    Charlie24 Active Member

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    There's no expense, only enhancement to understanding.

    Paul is discussing the same thing in Gal. 5 as in Rom. 6, only to a different audience.

    Together the picture is fine-tuned.
     
  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    The problem is one man's enhancement may be another's expense. ;)

    In Scripture there is a human nature (the "flesh") with "desires of the flesh". Ultimately this is what people call a "sin nature".

    Then there is the spiritual nature (the "spirit") which desires the things of the Spirit.

    Natural man was created and born "flesh".

    Jesus was born "flesh" as well but He is God (He also has set His mind on the things of the Spirit because He is "spiritually alive").

    My concern with using "sin nature" is people may think that Jesus did not actually have a nature like us, was not actually tempted in all points common to man, was not mafe like us in all ways (yet without sin).

    Another concern is that people equate "sin nature" with sin itself.
     
  11. Charlie24

    Charlie24 Active Member

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    The sin nature is an inheritance passed down to man through Adam.

    Christ was conceived of the Spirit, not by the seed of Adam, the sin nature was not passed to Him.
     
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  12. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I disagree here.

    The reason is that Scripture uses the word "flesh". Jesus was flesh. And He was made in the likeness of sinful flesh, made in every way like us (but He didn't sin), and was tempted in all points common to man.

    One can hold that we inherit our "sin nature" from Adam (we inherit our "flesh" through Adam as well) but so did Eve.

    Scripture seems to me to indicate that Adam is the representative of natural man (flesh) and Christ of spiritual man (spirit). First came tge flesh and second the Spirit in terms of mankind.

    What passage would you use to support that Jesus' human nature was different from ours, that Jesus was not "Ben-Adam" (Son of Man)?

    I would argue that Jesus is THE Son of Man (the Son of Adam) and representative of mankind (another Adam).
     
  13. Charlie24

    Charlie24 Active Member

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    If Christ had been conceived of Joseph (His supposed father) then Christ would have received the inheritance of the sin nature, by way of Adam's seed.
    Christ was 100% God and at the same time 100% man. I know that's difficult to understand.

    Ps. 51:5
    "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me."

    David tells us that we are born in sin from birth. That's because we have inherited the sin nature from Adam.

    Christ, the perfect sacrifice for our sins could not be born in sin. That was the purpose of the virgin birth, so the sin nature would not be passed to Him.

    Christ is same man that Adam was before he sinned in the Garden, without the sin nature. Christ had no sin nature, but yet He was 100% man.

    He is made exactly like us but without the sin nature.
     
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  14. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    So are you saying that women do not have a sin nature? Are you a closet RC because you are claiming that Mary was sinless/immaculate thus could not pass on a sin nature as she did not have one.
     
  15. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I disagree about the "sin nature" part. If this were true then He could not have been tempted in all points as is common to man.

    I also disagree that Adam's nature changed when he sinned.

    How do you define "nature"?
     
  16. Charlie24

    Charlie24 Active Member

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    Mary the Mom of Christ had a sin nature. She was born of the seed of man/Adam.

    The sin nature comes from the seed of man, Christ was born of the Spirit with no seed of man.

    You'll have ask God how He formed Christ in womb, and how that worked, I haven't a clue.

    LOL, no , there are some here who verify that I'm not a Catholic.
     
  17. Charlie24

    Charlie24 Active Member

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    LOL, Jon, you don't disagree on part of the sin nature, you disagree on all of it.

    And that's fine! You're dead set against it and it seems we will have to agree to disagree.

    Nothing I can say that's going to suit you.
     
  18. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    So you agree that Mary had a sin nature and since we know that DNA comes from both parents she would have passed on that sin nature. Christ had the ability to sin but did not sin that is why we are told He was like us in all ways but without sin.

    I did not think you were RC but your logic is what we see from that group.
     
  19. Charlie24

    Charlie24 Active Member

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    If you don't believe that we have a sin nature, then I can't explain anything to you.

    On the other hand, if you do believe we have a sin nature, I can explain it very easily.

    So what do you believe?
     
  20. Charlie24

    Charlie24 Active Member

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    If you want to see the sin nature of man live and in action,

    place 2 toddlers in the same playpen with one rubber ducky.
     
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