Colossians 2;12.

[Brightfame52]

Prayerfully sustaining this position would be too deep a
waters for me to thread in, from Ephesians 2:8 & 9, as the Greek Professor shows, when he runs through it, below.
(Wait for it.)

Even, by trying to say that from Ephesians 1:13.





Let's try this and look over what this brother has to say about it.
(Wait for it....)

"There is meaning in Greek word order, but it is normally so nuanced that it can’t come out in translation.

"Ephesians 2:8–9 is one of the rare exceptions, illustrating how to emphasize a word or phrase by changing its normal position in the sentence.

"Since Greek does not use word order to determine meaning as we do in English, it is available for other purposes.

“Normal” word order is “conjunction — verb — subject — direct object,” but it occurs so rarely that it is hard to find an example.

"Matt 9:35 reads, καὶ περιῆγεν ὁ Ἰησοῦς τὰς πόλεις,” “and He went through Jesus the cities.”

"If you want to add a slight emphasis to a word, you put it out of its “normal” order, usually moving it forward, even to the front of the sentence.

"English rarely is able to convey the emphasis, but in Eph 2:8–9 it can.

"Word-for-word Paul writes, “by grace you have been saved.”

"Preceding the verb with a prepositional phrase is understandable in English and accurately reflects the significant emphasis on “grace” in this verse.

"As you look further, you can see a more subtle example of emphasis.

“It is the gift of God” is word-for-word, “of God the gift” (θεοῦ τὸ δῶρον), the emphasis being on “God” more than on the “gift,” which parallels nicely with the following contrast “not of works” (οὐκ ἐξ ἔργων).

"This, however, is so subtle that you can’t express it in English.

"In 2:9 the nuance is so slight that you just pass over it. In the phrase, “so that no one may boast” (ἵνα μή τις καυχήσηται), the subject precedes the verb.

"Language is full of nuances.

"Caution is urged at being too specific in your translation and teaching.

"As far as Greek grammar is concerned in this verse, there are two things worth pointing out.

ἐστε σεσῳσμένοι is a periphrastic perfect.

"Originally, periphrastic constructions were created to emphasize the continuous aspect of the verb, but that distinction has generally fallen into disuse by the Koine, so it is translated as a simple perfect: “have been saved.”

"Also, did you see that τοῦτο is neuter?

"What is its antecedent?

"Both χάριτι and πίστεως are feminine.

"When Greek wants to refer back to an idea in general and not so much a single word, it uses the neuter.

"So Paul is saying that the entire Salvation Process, along with Grace and Faith, is a Gift from God.

"As Paul says in Titus 3:5,
“He saved us.”

"We do not save ourselves; we do not earn Salvation through works of the law.

"The Entire Process is a Gift."

(Ah hah!, There it is!)

From:
Greek Word Order and Nuance
(Eph 2:8–9).

And to make it simple, we know plainly Faith is by or because of Grace, so that eliminates it being of oneself altogether and puts it into the category of a Gift !

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

And to make it simple, we know plainly Faith is by or because of Grace, so that eliminates it being of oneself altogether and puts it into the category of a Gift !

Yes sir, it sure does, but that `prayerful` part, Spiritually, is what we need and have to own, to land us there, safely and confidently.

It`s when the arm of the flesh is wrestling with The Angel of The Lord, unwilling or unable to grant Him His Glory in Worship, where all logic and reasoning and fifth grade reading level get thrown out, along with that entire phrase, "through faith". It`s not like it can just be divorced out of the whole sentence, as if it`s in it`s own world, independent of it being essential as part of the overall message contained in that sentence.

"Grace" is simply the instrument of the means fir the Power of God used by which "are you saved", while at the same time that Spiritual Power is delivered by a second instrument which is the manner God Chose to say He uses, to connect our souls to His Spiritual Realm of Salvation, which is "through "faith".

Both are Gifts of God which modify, or explain, and are supposed to doubly clarify, how God saves us, when He Quickens us to Eternal Life, from the dead. And, we must already know dead faith doesn`t cut it, BUT GOD!!!!

 

[Brightfame52]

Yes sir, it sure does, but that `prayerful` part, Spiritually, is what we need and have to own, to land us there, safely and confidently.

It`s when the arm of the flesh is wrestling with The Angel of The Lord, unwilling or unable to grant Him His Glory in Worship, where all logic and reasoning and fifth grade reading level get thrown out, along with that entire phrase, "through faith". It`s not like it can just be divorced out of the whole sentence, as if it`s in it`s own world, independent of it being essential as part of the overall message contained in that sentence.

"Grace" is simply the instrument of the means fir the Power of God used by which "are you saved", while at the same time that Spiritual Power is delivered by a second instrument which is the manner God Chose to say He uses, to connect our souls to His Spiritual Realm of Salvation, which is "through "faith".

Both are Gifts of God which modify, or explain, and are supposed to doubly clarify, how God saves us, when He Quickens us to Eternal Life, from the dead. And, we must already know dead faith doesn`t cut it, BUT GOD!!!!

Okay but have you ever noticed that Faith in Eph 2:8 in the original has the definite article ? Why is that ?

τῇ γὰρ χάριτί ἐστε σεσῳσμένοι διὰ τῆς πίστεως· καὶ τοῦτο οὐκ ἐξ ὑμῶν θεοῦ τὸ δῶρον·

I never heard nobody even mention that.

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

τῆς πίστεως·

Very cool.

Strong's Greek: 4102. πίστις (pistis) -- Faith, belief, trust, confidence, fidelity