Are we to have the Faith of or in Christ now?

[JesusFan]

As translations treat this differently?

 

[37818]

As translations treat this differently?

Both.

Romans 3:22, Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: . . .

Galatians 3:26, For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

 

[Logos1560]

There is evidence that the KJV may have sometimes used prepositions with a different intended meaning than how the same preposition may be understood today.

In his introduction to his 1833 Bible, Noah Webster wrote: “In the use of this word [of], a great change has taken place, since the present version [the KJV] was made. Its original signification is from; but in present use in the scriptures, it is equivalent in many passages, to concerning; in many others, to by; in others, to from; and in some passages, its signification is, at first view, ambiguous” (p. xiv). Noah Webster asserted: “The substitution of another word for of, in order to present the true meaning at first view, is necessary in a multiple of passages” (Ibid.). In his 1828 Dictionary, Noah Webster observed: “Of then has one primary sense, from, departing, issuing, proceeding from or out of, and a derivative sense denoting possession or property.”

The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia maintained that the KJV “contains many uses of ‘of’ that are no longer familiar—most of them, to be sure, causing no difficulty, but there still being a few responsible for real obscurities” (Vol. IV, p. 2179). Ronald Bridges and Luther Weigle noted: “The most versatile and ambiguous of the prepositions in KJ is ‘of’. It is used where we would now say ‘by”—Jesus is said to be baptized of John and led of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil” (KJB Wordbook, p. 239).

At Luke 9:7, the same Greek preposition is translated both by [“by him”] and of [“of some”] in the KJV while later English Bibles may translate both as by [“by some”]. Ronald Bridges and Luther Weigle added: “The King James Version sometimes uses ‘of’ where we would now use ‘with.’ Examples are ‘in comparison of you’ (Judges 8:3) and ‘provided the king of sustenance’ (2 Samuel 19:32)” (Ibid.).

Ronald Bridges and Luther Weigle observed: “Occasionally ‘of’ is redundant, and may simply be dropped. Examples are: ‘Asahel would not turn aside from following of him’ (2 Samuel 2:21); and ‘they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep’ (John 11:13)” (pp. 239-240).

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I seem to recall that when I was learning Greek as an unsaved teenager, I was told that the Genitive Case in Greek ('of') could be translated in up to ten different ways. However, for the purpose of this question, the question is more simple: does the 'faith of Jesus Christ' mean the personal faith possessed by the Lord Jesus, or our faith towards or in respect of Him?
OK, when we come across 2 Cor. 5:14, for the love of Christ compels us,' is it Christ's love for us, or our love for Him that compels us?
Now how about Acts 9:31, '....Walking in the fear of the Lord.' That's a bit easier; whom would God fear? No one, surely? Obviously the verse refers to the fear of the disciples towards or in respect of God.
I think one verse which is helpful in deciding this question is Gal. 2:16. Here is is in the KJV. 'Knowing that a man is not justified by [the] works of [the] law, but by [the] faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by [the] faith of Christ, and not by [the] works of [the] law.' The reason that I have put the definite article ('the') in brackets is that it does not appear in the Greek text. So 'Works of law' is being contrasted with 'faith of Jesus Christ.' When we look at 'works of law' is is perfectly clear that it cannot refer to the works that the law does; it must refer to our works in respect of the law. Therefore it would seem reasonable to suppose that 'faith of Christ' - since it is being contrasted with 'works of law' - must refer to our faith towards or in respect of Christ; hence the modern translations translate it as 'faith in Christ.'
If further evidence were needed, we can see that Paul says that 'we have believed in Jesus Christ that we might be justified by faith of Christ.' We are justified by faith, and that faith is towards or in respect of the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[JesusFan]

I seem to recall that when I was learning Greek as an unsaved teenager, I was told that the Genitive Case in Greek ('of') could be translated in up to ten different ways. However, for the purpose of this question, the question is more simple: does the 'faith of Jesus Christ' mean the personal faith possessed by the Lord Jesus, or our faith towards or in respect of Him?
OK, when we come across 2 Cor. 5:14, for the love of Christ compels us,' is it Christ's love for us, or our love for Him that compels us?
Now how about Acts 9:31, '....Walking in the fear of the Lord.' That's a bit easier; whom would God fear? No one, surely? Obviously the verse refers to the fear of the disciples towards or in respect of God.
I think one verse which is helpful in deciding this question is Gal. 2:16. Here is is in the KJV. 'Knowing that a man is not justified by [the] works of [the] law, but by [the] faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by [the] faith of Christ, and not by [the] works of [the] law.' The reason that I have put the definite article ('the') in brackets is that it does not appear in the Greek text. So 'Works of law' is being contrasted with 'faith of Jesus Christ.' When we look at 'works of law' is is perfectly clear that it cannot refer to the works that the law does; it must refer to our works in respect of the law. Therefore it would seem reasonable to suppose that 'faith of Christ' - since it is being contrasted with 'works of law' - must refer to our faith towards or in respect of Christ; hence the modern translations translate it as 'faith in Christ.'
If further evidence were needed, we can see that Paul says that 'we have believed in Jesus Christ that we might be justified by faith of Christ.' We are justified by faith, and that faith is towards or in respect of the Lord Jesus Christ.

So basically its Faith Lord Jesus as basis for our salvation, focus on what He had already done, or else our faith as the basis of salvation? As notice the heretical word of faith teachers always seem to hold to the have the very faith of Christ as how to translate this?

 

[JesusFan]

There is evidence that the KJV may have sometimes used prepositions with a different intended meaning than how the same preposition may be understood today.

In his introduction to his 1833 Bible, Noah Webster wrote: “In the use of this word [of], a great change has taken place, since the present version [the KJV] was made. Its original signification is from; but in present use in the scriptures, it is equivalent in many passages, to concerning; in many others, to by; in others, to from; and in some passages, its signification is, at first view, ambiguous” (p. xiv). Noah Webster asserted: “The substitution of another word for of, in order to present the true meaning at first view, is necessary in a multiple of passages” (Ibid.). In his 1828 Dictionary, Noah Webster observed: “Of then has one primary sense, from, departing, issuing, proceeding from or out of, and a derivative sense denoting possession or property.”

The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia maintained that the KJV “contains many uses of ‘of’ that are no longer familiar—most of them, to be sure, causing no difficulty, but there still being a few responsible for real obscurities” (Vol. IV, p. 2179). Ronald Bridges and Luther Weigle noted: “The most versatile and ambiguous of the prepositions in KJ is ‘of’. It is used where we would now say ‘by”—Jesus is said to be baptized of John and led of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil” (KJB Wordbook, p. 239).

At Luke 9:7, the same Greek preposition is translated both by [“by him”] and of [“of some”] in the KJV while later English Bibles may translate both as by [“by some”]. Ronald Bridges and Luther Weigle added: “The King James Version sometimes uses ‘of’ where we would now use ‘with.’ Examples are ‘in comparison of you’ (Judges 8:3) and ‘provided the king of sustenance’ (2 Samuel 19:32)” (Ibid.).

Ronald Bridges and Luther Weigle observed: “Occasionally ‘of’ is redundant, and may simply be dropped. Examples are: ‘Asahel would not turn aside from following of him’ (2 Samuel 2:21); and ‘they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep’ (John 11:13)” (pp. 239-240).

Thanks, and this points out just why while the Kjv is not a bad translation, at times can be misleading due to how much English has indeed changed past 500 years

 

[Conan]

King James English

James Hastings, ed., A Dictionary of the Bible, Dealing with its Language, Literature, and Contents, including the Biblical Theology, edited by James Hastings, with the assistance of John Selbie, A.B. Davidson, S.R. Driver, H.B. Swete. 5 volumes. Edinburgh: T. & T. Clark, 1898-1906. Reprinted by Hendrickson Publishers in 1988. This Bible dictionary contains many articles explaining in great detail the vocabulary and idioms of the King James Version. For example, the entry "OF" in volume 3 fills two whole pages with examples and explanations of the archaic usages of this preposition in the KJV

 

[JesusFan]

King James English

James Hastings, ed., A Dictionary of the Bible, Dealing with its Language, Literature, and Contents, including the Biblical Theology, edited by James Hastings, with the assistance of John Selbie, A.B. Davidson, S.R. Driver, H.B. Swete. 5 volumes. Edinburgh: T. & T. Clark, 1898-1906. Reprinted by Hendrickson Publishers in 1988. This Bible dictionary contains many articles explaining in great detail the vocabulary and idioms of the King James Version. For example, the entry "OF" in volume 3 fills two whole pages with examples and explanations of the archaic usages of this preposition in the KJV

Which seems toi be strange IF Kjv really was as KJVO present it as being, for should have no issues and God should have "frozen" and fixed English language to the time of the Elizabethan Kings English for all time forwards

 

[Van]

We are to have the faith of Abraham and place it in Christ

Galatians 2:16 NET
yet we know that no one is justified by the works of the law but by the faithfulness of Jesus Christ. And we have come to believe in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by the faithfulness of Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

Galatians 2:20 NET
I have been crucified with Christ, and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So the life I now live in the body, I live because of the faithfulness of the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Galatians 3:22 NET
But the scripture imprisoned everything and everyone under sin so that the promise could be given - because of the faithfulness of Jesus Christ - to those who believe.

Romans 4:16 NET
For this reason it is by faith so that it may be by grace, with the result that the promise may be certain to all the descendants - not only to those who are under the law, but also to those who have the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all