Limited Atonement #1: Whom the Father Elects, the Son Redeems, and the Holy Ghost Sanctifies.

[Alan Dale Gross]

"Universal redemption, or, that Christ died for all men, cannot be
a Gospel truth, because of the following arguments and reasons.

"1. God the Father’s Election, God the Son’s Redemption, and
God the Holy Ghost’s Sanctification, must all be of Equal Extent and
Latitude; but universal redemption, in the Arminian sense of it,
makes these unequal.

This is clear; for as the Father, Word, and Spirit are One in
Essence, so are they One in Willing, Working, and Witnessing the
Redemption of sinners.

"As there are Three that bear witness on earth,
the Spirit, the water, and the blood; so there are Three which Bear
Record in Heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost; “and
these Three agree in one” (1Jo 5:6,8).

"Whom the Father Elects, the Son Redeems, and the Holy Ghost Sanctifies.

"If then there be a universal redemption there must be a universal election, and a
universal sanctification also, and so, by consequence, a universal salvation."

Alan's Note: As everyone must universally acknowledge.

"That the Son Redeems no more than the Father Elects is
evident from two scriptures. The first is John 5:23, which declares
the Son must be Honoured as Equal with the Father; but, to say that
the Son Redeemed all, and the Father Elected but few, is to give
greater Honour to the One than to the Other, and to make an
inequality in Their Operations. The second scripture is John 17:9,10:
“All Thine are Mine and all Mine are Thine,” etc.

"They were the Father’s by electing love, and they became the Son’s by gift and
redemption: “Thine they were, and Thou gavest them Me” (John
17:6). Christ redeems only those whom the Father gave unto Him.
Hence God’s “book of life” wherein the number of the elect is
recorded, is called also the “Lamb’s book of life;” intimating that
the number of those elected by the Father is commensurate with
those redeemed by the Son.

"That Christ redeems no greater number than the Spirit sanctifies
is evident from 1Jo 5:6,7.

"Thus it is most apparent that all the Three Persons in the Trinity
have One Object and One Design of Love.

"They are Equal in Essence, Equal in Honour, and Equal in Operation."

From: An Antidote Against Arminianism
or
A Treatise to Enervate and Confute All The Five Points of It;
Viz.: — Predestination Grounded upon Man’s Foreseen Works —
Universal Redemption —
Sufficient Grace in All —
The Power of Man’s Free-will in Conversion —
The Possibility of true Saints Falling away Totally and Finally.
by Christopher Ness 1621-1705

With Extracts from Dr. John Gill, Dr. Isaac Watts, Augustus Toplady,
John Newton, J. Hart, etc.
Recommended by Dr. John Owen, and Published for Public Good.

 

[Charlie24]

"Universal redemption, or, that Christ died for all men, cannot be
a Gospel truth, because of the following arguments and reasons.

"1. God the Father’s Election, God the Son’s Redemption, and
God the Holy Ghost’s Sanctification, must all be of Equal Extent and
Latitude; but universal redemption, in the Arminian sense of it,
makes these unequal.

This is clear; for as the Father, Word, and Spirit are One in
Essence, so are they One in Willing, Working, and Witnessing the
Redemption of sinners.

"As there are Three that bear witness on earth,
the Spirit, the water, and the blood; so there are Three which Bear
Record in Heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost; “and
these Three agree in one” (1Jo 5:6,8).

"Whom the Father Elects, the Son Redeems, and the Holy Ghost Sanctifies.

"If then there be a universal redemption there must be a universal election, and a
universal sanctification also, and so, by consequence, a universal salvation."

Alan's Note: As everyone must universally acknowledge.

"That the Son Redeems no more than the Father Elects is
evident from two scriptures. The first is John 5:23, which declares
the Son must be Honoured as Equal with the Father; but, to say that
the Son Redeemed all, and the Father Elected but few, is to give
greater Honour to the One than to the Other, and to make an
inequality in Their Operations. The second scripture is John 17:9,10:
“All Thine are Mine and all Mine are Thine,” etc.

"They were the Father’s by electing love, and they became the Son’s by gift and
redemption: “Thine they were, and Thou gavest them Me” (John
17:6). Christ redeems only those whom the Father gave unto Him.
Hence God’s “book of life” wherein the number of the elect is
recorded, is called also the “Lamb’s book of life;” intimating that
the number of those elected by the Father is commensurate with
those redeemed by the Son.

"That Christ redeems no greater number than the Spirit sanctifies
is evident from 1Jo 5:6,7.

"Thus it is most apparent that all the Three Persons in the Trinity
have One Object and One Design of Love.

"They are Equal in Essence, Equal in Honour, and Equal in Operation."

From: An Antidote Against Arminianism
or
A Treatise to Enervate and Confute All The Five Points of It;
Viz.: — Predestination Grounded upon Man’s Foreseen Works —
Universal Redemption —
Sufficient Grace in All —
The Power of Man’s Free-will in Conversion —
The Possibility of true Saints Falling away Totally and Finally.
by Christopher Ness 1621-1705

With Extracts from Dr. John Gill, Dr. Isaac Watts, Augustus Toplady,
John Newton, J. Hart, etc.
Recommended by Dr. John Owen, and Published for Public Good.

This is Calvinist reasoning based on election!! What does the Scripture say?

2 Cor. 5:14-15

"For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again."

Christ died for all men because all men were dead in trespasses and sins.

Notice the bold, "that they which live" these are the ones that accepted Christ and were born again.

No one in hell can say that Christ did not die for them. He died for the whole world that was lost in trespass and sin.

John 3:16
For God so loved the WORLD (not a select number, but the whole world) that He gave....

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

This is Calvinist reasoning based on election!!

Pure Bible reasoning, which include the application of the rules of Interpretation
(which prove to always devastate non-Biblical human reasoning.)

This treatment by Gill concludes by noting the context;
"... the context explains the all of such who are in Christ,
"are New Creatures,
"are Reconciled to God,
"whose trespasses are not imputed to them,
"for whom Christ was made sin,
"and who are made the Righteousness of God in Him;

"which cannot be said of all men."

"that if one died for all, then were all dead"; or "seeing one died for all";

"for it is rather an assertion than a supposition, upon which the apostle reasons. The person designed, who died for all, is Jesus Christ, though not mentioned, and is to be supplied from the former clause. The Doctrine of Christ's dying for men was well known, so that there was no need to mention His Name; He is called "One", in distinction to the "all" He died for, and as exclusive of all others, He being Sufficient of Himself to answer the ends of His death;

"and therefore is to be looked unto, and believed on, alone for salvation, and Jesus is to have all the Glory of it. The manner of His dying is for, or in the Room and Stead of all;

"so that He died not merely as a Martyr, or by way of example, or only for their good, but as their Substitute, in their Room and Stead, having all the sins of His people upon Him, for which He Made Satisfaction; and this the Nature of His death shows, which was a Sacrifice, a Ransom, a Propitiation and Atonement.

"The persons for whom Christ died are all; not every individual of mankind, but all His people, all His sheep, all the saved members of His churches, or all the sons He, as the Great Captain of salvation, brings to Glory.

"Wherefore this text does not make for the Doctrine of General Redemption; for it should be observed, that it does not say that Christ died for "all men", but for "all";

"and so, agreeably to the Scriptures, may be understood of all the persons mentioned.

"Moreover, in the latter part of the text it is said,
that those for whom Christ died, for them He Rose Again;

"He died for no more, nor for others, than those for whom He Rose Again:
now those for whom He Rose Again, He Rose for their Justification;

"wherefore, if Christ Rose for the Justification of all men, all would be Justified,
or the End of Christ's Resurrection would not be answered;

"but all men are not, nor will they be Justified, some will be Condemned;

"hence it follows, that Christ did not Rise from the dead for all men, and consequently did not die for all men: besides, the "all" for whom Christ died, died with Him, and through His death are dead both to the law and sin;

"and He died for them, that they might live, not to themselves, but to Him;

"neither of which are true of all the individuals of mankind:
to which may be added, (again) that the context explains:
1. the all of such who are in Christ,
2. are New Creatures,
3. are Reconciled to God,
4. whose trespasses are not imputed to them,
5. for whom Christ was made sin,
6. and who are Made the Righteousness of God in Him;
which cannot be said of all men."

What does the Scripture say?

That's what the Scriptures say.

John 3:16
For God so loved the WORLD (not a select number, but the whole world) that He gave...

Speaking of what the Scriptures say, they don't say "the whole world".

That's a given.

Then, of any of number of places where the word "world" is used to describe "the Gentiles", God actually equates "the world" as meaning "the Gentiles", in Roman's 11:12.

Starting in vs 7, 'Israel' is who Paul is talking about when he says, Israel stumbled and fell, in vs 11, then where he says, "if the fall of them", in vs 12, that is also talking about Israel, of course;

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for;
but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

11 I say then, Have they (Israel) stumbled that they should fall?
God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles,
for to provoke them to jealousy.

12 Now if the fall of them (Israel) be the riches of the world,
and the diminishing of them (Israel) the riches of the Gentiles;
how much more their fulness?

13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles,
I magnify mine office:

God defines the word "world" there in Romans 11:12, as referring to "the Gentiles".

When a word is used in the Bible, we can't just assume it means one certain thing that we think it might, since the Bible also quite plainly says, "love not the world".

John 3, in context, depicts that those in John 3:16, who were "whosoever" in the "world" that God so Loved, who came to Jesus in Salvation did so as the result of being "Wrought in God", which not everyone in the entire whole world was.

20 "For every one that doeth evil hateth the Light, neither cometh to the Light,
lest his deeds should be Reproved.

21 "But he that doeth Truth cometh to the Light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."

THE "WHOSOEVER" AND "THE WORLD", IN JOHN 3:16,
WERE WROUGHT IN GOD TO COME TO THE LIGHT OF THE TRUTH.

 

[Charlie24]

Pure Bible reasoning, which include the application of the rules of Interpretation
(which prove to always devastate non-Biblical human reasoning.)

This treatment by Gill concludes by noting the context;
"... the context explains the all of such who are in Christ,
"are New Creatures,
"are Reconciled to God,
"whose trespasses are not imputed to them,
"for whom Christ was made sin,
"and who are made the Righteousness of God in Him;

"which cannot be said of all men."

"that if one died for all, then were all dead"; or "seeing one died for all";

"for it is rather an assertion than a supposition, upon which the apostle reasons. The person designed, who died for all, is Jesus Christ, though not mentioned, and is to be supplied from the former clause. The Doctrine of Christ's dying for men was well known, so that there was no need to mention His Name; He is called "One", in distinction to the "all" He died for, and as exclusive of all others, He being Sufficient of Himself to answer the ends of His death;

"and therefore is to be looked unto, and believed on, alone for salvation, and Jesus is to have all the Glory of it. The manner of His dying is for, or in the Room and Stead of all;

"so that He died not merely as a Martyr, or by way of example, or only for their good, but as their Substitute, in their Room and Stead, having all the sins of His people upon Him, for which He Made Satisfaction; and this the Nature of His death shows, which was a Sacrifice, a Ransom, a Propitiation and Atonement.

"The persons for whom Christ died are all; not every individual of mankind, but all His people, all His sheep, all the saved members of His churches, or all the sons He, as the Great Captain of salvation, brings to Glory.

"Wherefore this text does not make for the Doctrine of General Redemption; for it should be observed, that it does not say that Christ died for "all men", but for "all";

"and so, agreeably to the Scriptures, may be understood of all the persons mentioned.

"Moreover, in the latter part of the text it is said,
that those for whom Christ died, for them He Rose Again;

"He died for no more, nor for others, than those for whom He Rose Again:
now those for whom He Rose Again, He Rose for their Justification;

"wherefore, if Christ Rose for the Justification of all men, all would be Justified,
or the End of Christ's Resurrection would not be answered;

"but all men are not, nor will they be Justified, some will be Condemned;

"hence it follows, that Christ did not Rise from the dead for all men, and consequently did not die for all men: besides, the "all" for whom Christ died, died with Him, and through His death are dead both to the law and sin;

"and He died for them, that they might live, not to themselves, but to Him;

"neither of which are true of all the individuals of mankind:
to which may be added, (again) that the context explains:
1. the all of such who are in Christ,
2. are New Creatures,
3. are Reconciled to God,
4. whose trespasses are not imputed to them,
5. for whom Christ was made sin,
6. and who are Made the Righteousness of God in Him;
which cannot be said of all men."



That's what the Scriptures say.



Speaking of what the Scriptures say, they don't say "the whole world".

That's a given.

Then, of any of number of places where the word "world" is used to describe "the Gentiles", God actually equates "the world" as meaning "the Gentiles", in Roman's 11:12.

Starting in vs 7, 'Israel' is who Paul is talking about when he says, Israel stumbled and fell, in vs 11, then where he says, "if the fall of them", in vs 12, that is also talking about Israel, of course;

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for;
but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

11 I say then, Have they (Israel) stumbled that they should fall?
God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles,
for to provoke them to jealousy.

12 Now if the fall of them (Israel) be the riches of the world,
and the diminishing of them (Israel) the riches of the Gentiles;
how much more their fulness?

13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles,
I magnify mine office:

God defines the word "world" there in Romans 11:12, as referring to "the Gentiles".

When a word is used in the Bible, we can't just assume it means one certain thing that we think it might, since the Bible also quite plainly says, "love not the world".

John 3, in context, depicts that those in John 3:16, who were "whosoever" in the "world" that God so Loved, who came to Jesus in Salvation did so as the result of being "Wrought in God", which not everyone in the entire whole world was.

20 "For every one that doeth evil hateth the Light, neither cometh to the Light,
lest his deeds should be Reproved.

21 "But he that doeth Truth cometh to the Light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."

THE "WHOSOEVER" AND "THE WORLD", IN JOHN 3:16,
WERE WROUGHT IN GOD TO COME TO THE LIGHT OF THE TRUTH.

Of course when Paul said, "He died for all" he actually meant "some."

And when John said, "For God so loved the world" He only loved some of the world.

God forbid that I should suggest that the great John Gill made up everything he said, turning the Scripture into a lie.

But Ol' John had a way with words didn't he, I'll give him that!

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

Of course when Paul said, "He died for all" he actually meant "some."

A simpleton, flippant quip in the flesh, without giving any serious consideration
to your own rule of what does the scripture say, is all you've got on a Baptist Bible Forum?

And when John said, "For God so loved the world" He only loved some of the world.

Another simpleton, flippant quip in the flesh, without giving any serious consideration
to your own rule of what does the scripture say, is all you've got on a Baptist Bible Forum?

But Ol' John had a way with words didn't he, I'll give him that!

I hope you don't die having never said anything, like you just didn't. And I hope you learn 'something' before then.

 

[Charlie24]

A simpleton, flippant quip in the flesh, without giving any serious consideration
to your own rule of what does the scripture say, is all you've got on a Baptist Bible Forum?


Another simpleton, flippant quip in the flesh, without giving any serious consideration
to your own rule of what does the scripture say, is all you've got on a Baptist Bible Forum?


I hope you don't die having never said anything, like you just didn't. And I hope you learn 'something' before then.

Alan, my fried, we don't serve the same God! Not even close.

 

[Charlie24]

Alan, my fried, we don't serve the same God! Not even close.

After rereading this I can see where some wrong assumptions could be made.

I'm not doubting your salvation, if your faith is anchored in the finished work of Christ, you are a born-again believer.

I don't doubt tht of you at all!

I'm saying your perception of who God is, is worlds apart from mine.

 

[Silverhair]

Only two views of Calvinism/Reformed

If C/R is an error:

The reason most Christians reject it is because they have good discernment.

If C/R is true:

The ultimate reason most resist it is because God sovereignly and unchangeably decreed their resistance for His own glory

If C/R is true, then God has predestined most of His children to resist His truth so as to glorify Himself.

The idea that God unchangeably predestines His own children to reject His own truth for His own glory is so intuitively false that we don’t need to refute it. We just need to make sure that everyone understands that’s what C/R entails so they know to reject it. Dr. Leighton Flowers