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Why are So many Accepting the Theology of NT Wright here?

Do you accept NT Wrights theology, specifically regarding Atonement?


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JesusFan

Well-Known Member
In regards to the Atonement of Christ? As while he is good concerning the physical resurrection of Jesus, he is dead wrong on His New Understanding/Perspective of Paul, and especially on His views of the Atonement?
 

DaveXR650

Well-Known Member
N.T. Wright challenges the Reformed interpretation of Romans chapter 9 as he argues that it is not about men's individual election to salvation. So anyone who is not a Calvinist would enjoy his take on it. That is why Leighton Flower's has Wright on his website discussing Romans 9. As far as the Atonement, there are articles defending Wright as believing in penal substitution from sources like the Gospel Coalition.

Wright does say that from the 16th century on we have the gospel wrong, which tends to offend people who find 16th century theology of some use.
 

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
the clear biblical teaching that justification occurs through faith in Christ alone.

I challenge you, show me "clear biblical teaching" that justification is through our faith alone, and I'll show you clear biblical teaching that justification is NOT through our faith alone.
 

37818

Well-Known Member
Romans 4:5, But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Ephesians 2:8-9, For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Galatians 2:21, I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
 

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
The Bible demonstrates that justification comes from faith alone without reliance on deeds.

Wow,

24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. Ja 2

I challenge anyone to cite from scripture that justification is by our faith ALONE (it doesn't exist).
 

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Romans 4:5, But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Ephesians 2:8-9, For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Galatians 2:21, I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

None of these teach 'faith alone'.

There is not a 'faith alone' passage to be found in the bible.

Justification by faith alone is a Reformed construct.
 

37818

Well-Known Member
None of these teach 'faith alone'.

There is not a 'faith alone' passage to be found in the bible.

Justification by faith alone is a Reformed construct.
But you do not understand what what the phrase "faith alone" is to mean.
 

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
no wonder you're missing the clear teaching of Scripture.

ROFL, you're the one missing the clear teaching of scripture.

I challenged you to cite from scripture that justification is by our faith ALONE, and you're unable to do so because it doesn't exist.

I've another challenge for you. Cite one final judgement passage that even mentions our faith at the judgement, it doesn't exist either. The final judgement is all about works. If you're any sort of Bible student at all, that alone should cause you to pause and think.
 
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kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
But you do not understand what what the phrase "faith alone" is to mean.

If it has to be explained perhaps you all should cease adding the word 'alone' to the gospel.

This 'alone' refutes the man-made doctrine of justification by our faith alone:

13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified: Ro 2
24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Ro 3
1 Being therefore justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ;
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, shall we be saved from the wrath of God through him. Ro 5
33 Who shall lay anything to the charge of God`s elect? It is God that justifieth; Ro 8
 

Charlie24

Active Member
Wow,

24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. Ja 2

I challenge anyone to cite from scripture that justification is by our faith ALONE (it doesn't exist).

Romans 11:6
"And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work."

Grace cancels out works and works cancels out grace.

It can't be both, it's one or the other.

James said, "see that how by works he (Abraham) was justified and not by faith alone.

James and Paul are not at odds, James is referring to works that prove justification by faith.

Abraham's works came from his faith, therefore proving his justification by faith.
 

37818

Well-Known Member
If it has to be explained perhaps you all should cease adding the word 'alone' to the gospel.

This 'alone' refutes the man-made doctrine of justification by our faith alone:

13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified: Ro 2
24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Ro 3
1 Being therefore justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ;
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, shall we be saved from the wrath of God through him. Ro 5
33 Who shall lay anything to the charge of God`s elect? It is God that justifieth; Ro 8
You just proved you do not understand "faith alone."
 

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
James is referring to works that prove justification by faith.

WRONG!

The 'works' to which James is referring:

27 Pure religion and undefiled before our God and Father is this, to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world. Ja 1
15 If a brother or sister be naked and in lack of daily food,
16 and one of you say unto them, Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; and yet ye give them not the things needful to the body; what doth it profit? Ja 2

...are the very same works by which we're all going to be judged in that day of judgement:

4 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 for I was hungry, and ye gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink; I was a stranger, and ye took me in;
36 naked, and ye clothed me; I was sick, and ye visited me; I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Mt 25

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 for I was hungry, and ye did not give me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink;
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in; naked, and ye clothed me not; sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Mt 25

There's absolutely no mention of our faith at this judgment, let alone our 'faith alone'.

This 'justification' is before Christ Himself, not before men.
 

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
You just proved you do not understand "faith alone."

You prove that you don't understand the meaning of the word 'alone'.

I reiterate, if it has to be explained, perhaps you all should cease adding the word 'alone' to the gospel.
 

Charlie24

Active Member
WRONG!

The 'works' to which James is referring:

27 Pure religion and undefiled before our God and Father is this, to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world. Ja 1
15 If a brother or sister be naked and in lack of daily food,
16 and one of you say unto them, Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; and yet ye give them not the things needful to the body; what doth it profit? Ja 2

...are the very same works by which we're all going to be judged in that day of judgement:

4 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 for I was hungry, and ye gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink; I was a stranger, and ye took me in;
36 naked, and ye clothed me; I was sick, and ye visited me; I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Mt 25

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 for I was hungry, and ye did not give me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink;
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in; naked, and ye clothed me not; sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Mt 25

There's absolutely no mention of our faith at this judgment, let alone our 'faith alone'.

This 'justification' is before Christ Himself, not before men.

Ok, deny Paul and accept James! Do you think the Lord will accept that?

Better figure it out Ky, you're playing with Fire, literal Fire!
 

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Ok, deny Paul and accept James!

Paul:

5 but after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up for thyself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 who will render to every man according to his works:
7 to them that by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and incorruption, eternal life:
10 but glory and honor and peace to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek:
13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified: Ro 2
 

Charlie24

Active Member
Ok, deny Paul and accept James! Do you think the Lord will accept that?

Better figure it out Ky, you're playing with Fire, literal Fire!

Bear with me Ky, there is no conversation more important that this one!

There are 2 different types of works in the Scriptures. It's the mind set that determines which is being addressed.

There is a mindset of works to get saved (this God will not accept) and there is a work because you are saved.

Now pay close attention!

Paul is referring the mindset of works to get saved, he says it can't be done, this mindset cancels out grace, impossible to be saved.

James is referring to the mindset of works because you are already saved, these works prove your justification by faith.
 
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