Baptism - Sprinkled or Dunked?

[Cathode]

I can tell you that the problem with the early scholars without going any further.

They misunderstood Acts 2:38 believing it was faith and water baptism that forgives sin and saves the soul.

That's just a fact! then they began piling on the works you see in Catholicism.

Could your interpretation of Scripture be wrong?

Could the scriptural interpretation of the entirety of the first 1500 years of Christianity be right? It being completely universal.

Why is their interpretation of Scripture wrong and your interpretation right?

 

[Charlie24]

Did you know that Ulrich Zwingli was the founder of the human doctrine of symbolic baptism? 1520s

Before him, ALL CHRISTIANS, ALL CHURCHES EVERYWHERE BACK TO THE APOSTLES BELIEVED IN BAPTISMAL REGENERATION.

How is it possible that all Christianity was universally deceived for the first 1500 years?

Do you find that strange?

Here's the situation at that time. When the 1st century came to an end, all the apostles and leaders of the Church who were instructed in truth were gone. As time passed new leaders took over in what became the Catholic Church in the 5th century, there about.

They departed from the truth, until some very brave men, at the risk of life, began correcting the Church and bringing it back to truth.

They didn't get it perfect, but they began steering us in the right direction.

The Word of God is alive and functioning in the hearts and minds continuously. New understandings, or I should say "the old way of truth" is continuously coming to light, even today.

 

[Cathode]

Here's the situation at that time. When the 1st century came to an end, all the apostles and leaders of the Church who were instructed in truth were gone. As time passed new leaders took over in what became the Catholic Church in the 5th century, there about.

They departed from the truth, until some very brave men, at the risk of life, began correcting the Church and bringing it back to truth.

They didn't get it perfect, but they began steering us in the right direction.

The Word of God is alive and functioning in the hearts of minds continuously. New understandings, or I should say "the old way of truth" is continuously coming to light, even today.

So all the Christians for the first 1500 years were totally deceived, even all the pre 5th century heads of Churches?

I’d be better off believing in Bigfoot and prepare a team of heavy dogs and buy a 500 Nitro double rifle for the hunt.

Isn’t it more likely that Zwingli was wrong, Zwingli who even the other reformers looked at like an extremist idiot at best?

 

[Charlie24]

So all the Christians for the first 1500 years were totally deceived, even all the pre 5th century heads of Churches?

I’d be better off believing in Bigfoot and prepare a team of heavy dogs and buy a 500 Nitro double rifle for the hunt.

Isn’t it more likely that Zwingli was wrong, Zwingli who even the other reformers looked at like an extremist idiot at best?

Satan is the master of deception, he mixes truth with lies, his trademark among men.

He doesn't care one bit what you believe as long as you don't believe the truth that sets man free from sin and delivers his soul.

And there is only one way, God's detailed plan of redemption by His prescription.

When you find that truth, you are Satan's worst enemy, He's afraid of you because you have power dwelling in you that's greater than his power.

 

[Cathode]

Satan is the master of deception, he mixes truth with lies, his trademark among men.

He doesn't care one bit what you believe as long as you don't believe the truth that sets man free from sin and delivers his soul.

And there is only one way, God's detailed plan of redemption by His prescription.

When you find that truth, you are Satan's worst enemy, He's afraid of you because you have power dwelling in you that's greater than his power.

So Zwingli couldn’t be deceived by Satan to invent symbolic baptism, but all of Christianity for first 1500 years was deceived by Satan to interpret Baptismal Regeneration from Scripture ?

Bigfoot is getting far more plausible, I need to call good outfitter in Oregon.

 

[Charlie24]

So Zwingli couldn’t be deceived by Satan to invent symbolic baptism, but all of Christianity for first 1500 years was deceived by Satan to interpret Baptismal Regeneration from Scripture ?

Bigfoot is getting far more plausible, I need to call good outfitter in Oregon.

LOL, sarcasm is not the way to go here, Cathode.

But have it your way! We are worlds apart in the Scripture, but the truth will reveal itself in the end.

Am I right on everything, of course not! I would be a fool to think such.

But I do know I have the Lord's salvation right.

And if you think about it, that's what we all want from this life, the true road that leads us home.

 

[Charlie24]

LOL, sarcasm is not the way to go here, Cathode.

But have it your way! We are worlds apart in the Scripture, but the truth will reveal itself in the end.

Am I right on everything, of course not! I would be a fool to think such.

But I do know I have the Lord's salvation right.

And if you think about it, that's what we all want from this life, the true road that leads us home.

Cathode. let me make a recommendation on the book of Romans, the most fascinating book I've ever read.

It told me exactly where I was, where I am, where I'm going, and how to get there.

Plain as the nose on your face from the great Apostle.

Study it with zeal, and careful attention to every sentence, and we will have another conversation.

it will take time, don't rush it, just read what Paul has to say about who we are and who we can be, and how we do it.

 

[canadyjd]

“Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven”

You can have faith enough to believe and call Jesus your Lord, but you must also do the Will of The Father in Heaven.

Doing the Will of The Father in Heaven requires a great deal of good works because the Will of The Father is to Love.

Faith without Works is dead, because Faith without Love is dead.

No Love, no salvation.

In the spiritual, what marks the Kingdom out is the Love.

Jesus said the one who endures to the end will be saved.

So, is the person saved because he endures to the end or…. does the person endure to the end because he is saved? I believe the latter.

Similarly, Jesus said the one who does the will of the Father will enter heaven.

So, does the person saved because they do the will of the Father or…… does the person do the will of the Father because they are saved. I believe the latter.

Is the person saved because they “love”? The homos:xuals make that argument….

Or…. does the person love with godly love because they are saved. I believe the latter.

Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our Faith. Salvation is a work of God from start to finish. Any suggestion that a believers work contributes to their salvation makes a mockery of God’s grace.

Peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

BTW, the Catholics came into existence in the 4th century when the Bishop of Rome forged a will of Constantine leaving him control of the Roman army.

All claims of “the first 1500 years of Christianity believed ….. Catholic doctrine” is historically untrue and nothing more than made up propaganda.

Peace to you

 

[Cathode]

LOL, sarcasm is not the way to go here, Cathode.

But have it your way! We are worlds apart in the Scripture, but the truth will reveal itself in the end.

Am I right on everything, of course not! I would be a fool to think such.

But I do know I have the Lord's salvation right.

And if you think about it, that's what we all want from this life, the true road that leads us home.

You are following Zwingli’s doctrines from his erroneous interpretation of Scripture, Zwingli doesn’t carry any weight with me.

Human interpretation is human doctrines and traditions of men that scripture condemns. Protestantism and Baptist’s are loaded with human founded traditions of men.

Catholics have never been allowed to privately interpret scripture, Scriptures have one singular ancient interpretation from the Apostles handed down and guarded in Truth.

Protestants interpret scripture how they want and derive their own doctrines from it, and either join a denomination that best approximates their interpretations or settle in as a independent church of the individual. Truth = What does the scripture mean to me.

The Objective Truth is not a consideration, that’s why all these private interpreters are in conflicted disagreement amongst themselves on scriptures interpretation and doctrine and all are convinced they are right.

 

[Charlie24]

You are following Zwingli’s doctrines from his erroneous interpretation of Scripture, Zwingli doesn’t carry any weight with me.

Human interpretation is human doctrines and traditions of men that scripture condemns. Protestantism and Baptist’s are loaded with human founded traditions of men.

Catholics have never been allowed to privately interpret scripture, Scriptures have one singular ancient interpretation from the Apostles handed down and guarded in Truth.

Protestants interpret scripture how they want and derive their own doctrines from it, and either join a denomination that best approximates their interpretations or settle in as a independent church of the individual. Truth = What does the scripture mean to me.

The Objective Truth is not a consideration, that’s why all these private interpreters are in conflicted disagreement amongst themselves on scriptures interpretation and doctrine and all are convinced they are right.

Your tradition is keeping you in the dark where they want you.

2 Tim. 2:15

"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

God expects you to study for yourself and let Him speak to you the truth.

This is why I recommend the book of Romans, Paul gives you the truth straight and to the point.

 

[Cathode]

Jesus said the one who endures to the end will be saved.

So, is the person saved because he endures to the end or…. does the person endure to the end because he is saved? I believe the latter.

Similarly, Jesus said the one who does the will of the Father will enter heaven.

So, does the person saved because they do the will of the Father or…… does the person do the will of the Father because they are saved. I believe the latter.

Is the person saved because they “love”? The homos:xuals make that argument….

Or…. does the person love with godly love because they are saved. I believe the latter.

Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our Faith. Salvation is a work of God from start to finish. Any suggestion that a believers work contributes to their salvation makes a mockery of God’s grace.

Peace to you

Paul warns that you can have faith to move mountains but not have Love. So your idea doesn’t fit with Scripture.
The good works don’t automatically follow the Faith obviously. Good works flow from Love.

We are being saved as remain faithful in grace.

 

[Charlie24]

Paul warns that you can have faith to move mountains but not have Love. So your idea doesn’t fit with Scripture.
The good works don’t automatically follow the Faith obviously. Good works flow from Love.

We are being saved as remain faithful in grace.

How do you know Paul said that? Did some priest tell you that, or did you break the rules of Catholicism and read it for yourself?

 

[Charlie24]

How do you know Paul said that? Did some priest tell you that, or did you break the rules of Catholicism and read it for yourself?

Cathode, are you a robot programmed by the RCC?

Is it possible for to take God at his word and study the Scripture with help from the Holy Spirit to rightly divide the Word of truth?

Of course they don't want you to do that, you'll find the truth.

 

[Cathode]

Your tradition is keeping you in the dark where they want you.

Your Zwinglian tradition is human tradition and Catholics are not allowed to follow human traditions of men, it has been strictly forbidden by Church Law and Scripture itself.
You still haven’t told me why Zwingli is correct and the entirety Christendom wrong.
Or don’t you realise Zwingli was the human founder of this false human doctrine of symbolic baptism.

2 Tim. 2:15

"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

God expects you to study for yourself and let Him speak to you the truth.

This is why I recommend the book of Romans, Paul gives you the truth straight and to the point.

You don’t think Catholics have read Romans?

Read Peter carefully before you read Paul.

“He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.” 2 Peter 3:16

You can only twist scripture to your own destruction if you privately interpret the scripture or follow someone else’s private interpretation as with Protestants and Baptist’s who all follow human founded interpretive traditions.

Misinterpretation of scripture leads to destruction, stop interpreting scripture for yourself, it’s more dangerous than rock fishing.

You guys have been brought up thinking it’s normal and it’s not.

 

[Charlie24]

Your Zwinglian tradition is human tradition and Catholics are not allowed to follow human traditions of men, it has been strictly forbidden by Church Law and Scripture itself.
You still haven’t told me why Zwingli is correct and the entirety Christendom wrong.
Or don’t you realise Zwingli was the human founder of this false human doctrine of symbolic baptism.



You don’t think Catholics have read Romans?

Read Peter carefully before you read Paul.

“He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.” 2 Peter 3:16

You can only twist scripture to your own destruction if you privately interpret the scripture or follow someone else’s private interpretation as with Protestants and Baptist’s who all follow human founded interpretive traditions.

Misinterpretation of scripture leads to destruction, stop interpreting scripture for yourself, it’s more dangerous than rock fishing.

You guys have been brought up thinking it’s normal and it’s not.

I've done some rock fishing, don't know what's under those ledges and rocks.

OK, every man chooses his way and will have no excuse before God.

So whoever gets it wrong can only blame themselves.

 

[Cathode]

Cathode, are you a robot programmed by the RCC?

Is it possible for to take God at his word and study the Scripture with help from the Holy Spirit to rightly divide the Word of truth?

Of course they don't want you to do that, you'll find the truth.

Could Zwingli be a dangerous heretic first inventing symbolic Baptism, against all preceding Christianity?

I say yes, and even Calvin and Luther thought he was off the reservation.

Catholics don’t follow the nutters interpretations of scripture, we follow the ancient interpretation handed down from the Apostles by the Fathers.

” ‘And dipped himself,’ says [the Scripture], ‘seven times in Jordan.’ It was not for nothing that Naaman of old, when suffering from leprosy, was purified upon his being baptized, but it served as an indication to us. For as we are lepers in sin, we are made clean, by means of the sacred water and the invocation of the Lord, from our old transgressions; being spiritually regenerated as new-born babes, even as the Lord has declared: ‘Except a man be born again through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.'” Irenaeus, Fragment, 34 (A.D. 190).

One thousand eight hundred years of the same interpretation of scripture from Irenaeus.

Bible alonism, any and every wacky interpretation of scripture and conflicted doctrine can be found.

 

[Charlie24]

Could Zwingli be a dangerous heretic first inventing symbolic Baptism, against all preceding Christianity?

I say yes, and even Calvin and Luther thought he was off the reservation.

Catholics don’t follow the nutters interpretations of scripture, we follow the ancient interpretation handed down from the Apostles by the Fathers.

” ‘And dipped himself,’ says [the Scripture], ‘seven times in Jordan.’ It was not for nothing that Naaman of old, when suffering from leprosy, was purified upon his being baptized, but it served as an indication to us. For as we are lepers in sin, we are made clean, by means of the sacred water and the invocation of the Lord, from our old transgressions; being spiritually regenerated as new-born babes, even as the Lord has declared: ‘Except a man be born again through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.'” Irenaeus, Fragment, 34 (A.D. 190).

One thousand eight hundred years of the same interpretation of scripture.

Bible alonism, any and every wacky interpretation of scripture and conflicted doctrine can be found.

I don't care what Zwingli said, or Calvin, or the preacher down the street!

I can read and comprehend, as God wanted me to.

God has shown me how to get the truth from the Spirit.

Prov. 1:23

"Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you."

I will take God at His promise, not the above or anyone else.

Although I do agree with many and not with others.

 

[Cathode]

I've done some rock fishing, don't know what's under those ledges and rocks.

OK, every man chooses his way and will have no excuse before God.

So whoever gets it wrong can only blame themselves.

Jesus the Good Shepherd didn’t leave a book and say work it out for yourself and if you mess up interpretation you will be destroyed.

Jesus established an authoritive Church founded on the Apostles and their successors would Shepherd the flock down the ages.

 

[Cathode]

I don't care what Zwingli said, or Calvin, or the preacher down the street!

I can read and comprehend, as God wanted me to.

God has shown me how to get the truth from the Spirit.

Prov. 1:23

"Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you."

I will take God at His promise, not the above or anyone else.

Although I do agree with many and not with others.

Every Bible aloner thinks he is guided by The Holy Spirit, look at the chaos of thousands of conflicting interpretations and doctrines that followed.

You are following Zwinglis interpretation and don’t even know it.