Is Eternal Sonship of Jesus Biblical?

[Charlie24]

What do you mean? I thought God has one plan. He made a choice, but then somehow had to make a change? I am not sure what you mean?

Yes...scripture does give that indication.

So now they do not fulfill that calling? saved jews do not evangelize? I am not sure if I have ever heard this idea.

This is dispensationalism, the dispensations in time where God has dealt differently with man.

God is bringing in the Gentiles through the Gentile Church, Israel has been partially blinded, as Paul said, and placed on the back shelf.

God is working independently with the Church and Israel.

 

[Zaatar71]

None of us has witnessed the true worship of our Lord.

I thought Jesus said the day is coming that we would all worship in Spirit and truth
.Jn 4

But wait until Israel accepts their Messiah, and they are saved.

We will all witness how to worship the Lord Jesus Christ.

This is dispensationalism, the dispensations in time where God has dealt differently with man.

Different in what way?

God is bringing in the Gentiles through the Gentile Church, Israel has been partially blinded, as Paul said, and placed on the back shelf.

Who are jews for Jesus? Are they Christians, or a different church?

God is working independently with the Church and Israel.

Two churches, not one new man? Are you sure of these ideas?

None of us has witnessed the true worship of our Lord.

I thought Jesus said the day is coming that we would all worship in Spirit and truth
.Jn 4:
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

But wait until Israel accepts their Messiah, and they are saved.

Saved jews accept Jesus as messiah now, they become part of the church ,don't they? Are we not equal because of the cross?
Eph2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Are saved Jews in a different church?

We will all witness how to worship the Lord Jesus Christ.

We do not know how to witness now? Are you reading this is some kind of book?

 

[Charlie24]

This is dispensationalism, the dispensations in time where God has dealt differently with man.

God is bringing in the Gentiles through the Gentile Church, Israel has been partially blinded, as Paul said, and placed on the back shelf.

God is working independently with the Church and Israel.

Of course God has always had a small remnant of Jews, and has one now, but very few.

99% of the saved since Acts 2 at Pentecost have been Gentiles.

 

[Charlie24]

I thought Jesus said the day is coming that we would all worship in Spirit and truth
.Jn 4



Different in what way?

Who are jews for Jesus? Are they Christians, or a different church?

Two churches, not one new man? Are you sure of these ideas?

I thought Jesus said the day is coming that we would all worship in Spirit and truth
.Jn 4:
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Saved jews accept Jesus as messiah now, they become part of the church ,don't they? Are we not equal because of the cross?
Eph2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Are saved Jews in a different church?

We do not know how to witness now? Are you reading this is some kind of book?

Oh boy, you are getting it all wrong. Jumping to conclusions.

God is working differently with the Church than He is with Israel, but in the end the Jew and Gentile will worship God together in perfect harmony.

 

[Zaatar71]

Oh boy, you are getting it all wrong. Jumping to conclusions.

God is working differently with the Church than He is with Israel, but in the end the Jew and Gentile will worship God together in perfect harmony.

I am glad you are offering help. The thing is, I have already been in churches where there are jews and gentiles both worshipping Jesus as members together. Is this different in some way than what you are describing?

 

[Charlie24]

I am glad you are offering help. The thing is, I have already been in churches where there are jews and gentiles both worshipping Jesus as members together. Is this different in some way than what you are describing?

Yes, much different! Imagine every Jew on earth locked in worship of their Messiah, in their own way.

That will be a sight to behold, They will have all the ancient traditions of Christ from the Law that we don't even know.

Have you ever had a conversation with a born-again Jew, they will blow your mind connecting Christ to the Law.

 

[Charlie24]

Yes, much different! Imagine every Jew on earth locked in worship of their Messiah, in their own way.

That will be a sight to behold, They will have all the ancient traditions of Christ from the Law that we don't even know.

Have you ever had a conversation with a born-again Jew, they will blow your mind connecting Christ to the Law.

Zechariah said that in the future, 10 men (representatives) of all nations will come to Jerusalem, and take hold of the skirt of him who is a Jew, and say, We will go with you to worship, for we have heard that the Lord is with you.

The entire world will have to go through the Jews to get to Christ. The way God originally planned it in the beginning.

 

[Zaatar71]

Yes, much different! Imagine every Jew on earth locked in worship of their Messiah, in their own way.

Do you mean they will worship by way of animal sacrifice/What will gentiles do? Do we join them?

That will be a sight to behold, They will have all the ancient traditions of Christ from the Law that we don't even know.]

Could you give an example or two of things we do not know?

Have you ever had a conversation with a born-again Jew, they will blow your mind connecting Christ to the Law.

The few I have talked with did not mention these things.

 

[Charlie24]

Do you mean they will worship by way of animal sacrifice/What will gentiles do? Do we join them?

Could you give an example or two of things we do not know?

The few I have talked with did not mention these things.

Wait until you meet one who has studied the Torah, as the devout Jews do.

Yes, the animal sacrifices will resume during the Millesimal reign.

Zechariah specifically says the The Feast of Tabernacles will be taking place.

 

[Zaatar71]

Wait until you meet one who has studied the Torah, as the devout Jews do.

Yes, the animal sacrifices will resume during the Millesimal reign.

Zechariah specifically says the The Feast of Tabernacles will be taking place.

When they do these animal sacrifices, does like the glorified Lord watch what they are doing? The animals being sacrificed, does that remove fresh sins somehow? I thought there was a verse that says the blood of bulls and goats cannot take away sin. Are you reading some kind of study, or article where are finding these things out?

 

[Charlie24]

When they do these animal sacrifices, does like the glorified Lord watch what they are doing? The animals being sacrificed, does that remove fresh sins somehow? I thought there was a verse that says the blood of bulls and goats cannot take away sin. Are you reading some kind of study, or article where are finding these things out?

No, it won't be for the forgiveness of sins, the One who forgives sin is present at that time.

I'm taking all of this straight from the Scripture.

There are different opinions on what these sacrifices are for, the most popular, or the one I agree with, is that it's a memorial to the sacrifice of Christ in His honor. But there are other opinions

 

[Charlie24]

No, it won't be for the forgiveness of sins, the One who forgives sin is present at that time.

I'm taking all of this straight from the Scripture.

There are different opinions on what these sacrifices are for, the most popular, or the one I agree with, is that it's a memorial to the sacrifice of Christ in His honor. But there are other opinions

Zech 14:16-19

And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

 

[Charlie24]

Zech 14:16-19

And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

This is after the battle of Armageddon when Christ destroys the anti-christ in plain view of Israel.

They now realize Jesus of Nazareth is their Messiah, and all of Israel is saved.

All the nations that refuse to come up to Jerusalem for the feast of tabernacles are stricken with no rain.

In other words, all the nations of the world that hated Israel are now forced to bow before them.

They are God's chosen people, better be careful how you treat them.

 

[Charlie24]

This is after the battle of Armageddon when Christ destroys the anti-christ in plain view of Israel.

They now realize Jesus of Nazareth is their Messiah, and all of Israel is saved.

All the nations that refuse to come up to Jerusalem for the feast of tabernacles are stricken with no rain.

In other words, all the nations of the world that hated Israel are now forced to bow before them.

They are God's chosen people, better be careful how you treat them.

Zech. 13:8-9

"And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God."

The anti-christ will wipe out 2/3 of Israel before the eastern sky splits and the Lord appears at His Second Coming to destroy the anti-christ.

1/3 of Israel will survive and be saved. And there will be worshipping as you have never seen on this earth!

 

[Zaatar71]

This is after the battle of Armageddon when Christ destroys the anti-christ in plain view of Israel.

They now realize Jesus of Nazareth is their Messiah, and all of Israel is saved.

All the nations that refuse to come up to Jerusalem for the feast of tabernacles are stricken with no rain.

In other words, all the nations of the world that hated Israel are now forced to bow before them.

They are God's chosen people, better be careful how you treat them.

Gentiles who are saved by Jesus will bow down to Jews? Do the jews have a better salvation than we do? why do saved gentiles bow down before jewish people? So instead of there being one new man in Christ, there are two new men who are different? Are you sure you are getting this correctly?

 

[Charlie24]

Gentiles who are saved by Jesus will bow down to Jews? Do the jews have a better salvation than we do? why do saved gentiles bow down before jewish people? So instead of there being one new man in Christ, there are two new men who are different? Are you sure you are getting this correctly?

Oh man, come on! There will be millions of people all over the world that will enter into the Kingdom Age that are saved and unsaved.

Remember in Matthew 24 when Christ divides the sheep from the goats immediately after the Second Coming?

This is the world that the Jews will evangelize for 1000, years. fulfilling their original calling.

The saved Gentiles will bow to no one but Christ.

 

[Charlie24]

Oh man, come on! There will be millions of people all over the world that will enter into the Kingdom Age that are saved and unsaved.

Remember in Matthew 24 when Christ divides the sheep from the goats immediately after the Second Coming?

This is the world that the Jews will evangelize for 1000, years. fulfilling their original calling.

The saved Gentiles will bow to no one but Christ.

I think I've had enough of this!

 

[Dave G]

Was Jesus the ternal Son of the Father from all eternity past

Yes.

It should be noted the concept of the eternal Son of God is an interpretation. Not explicitly stated in the written word of God.

Whether or not there is one all encompassing "verse" that states the answer to the question, all one has to do is to put together the statements that we are given, in order to get the right "picture" of who He is.
It is fully understood from everything that we are told, as believers, about who He is and who God the Father told us that He is and was before He was born as a man.

Here is a sampling of those things that He has told us:

" In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." (John 1:1-2). <---- "The Word" was with God and was God, in the beginning. All things were made by "the Word".

" And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." ( John 1:14 ) <------ "The Word" ( God ), was made flesh and dwelt among us.

" And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us." ( Matthew 1:21-23 ). <--- Jesus is God in the flesh.

 

[Dave G]

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross." ( Philippians 2:5-8 ). <--- Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God...was made in the likeness of men ( became a man ).

" God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; " ( Hebrews 1:1-2 ). <--- God has spoken to us by His Son...by whom He also made "the worlds". Jesus was there at the beginning, and made everything that was made.

" Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw [it], and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am." ( John 8:56-58 ). _ <---- "I am" is a statement of always being. Here Jesus is explicitly stating that He is eternally God.

" And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was." ( John 17:5 ). <---- "Eternal Sonship"...Jesus, the Word who was with God and was God, was glorified as God before the world was.



Respectfully,
To me, all one has to do is to believe what is written in order to see that Jesus Christ is the Son, was the Son and will always be the Son of God.
He also is God, was God and will always be God.

 

[Ekklesian]

Was Jesus the ternal Son of the Father from all eternity past, or did he become such at the Incarnation, as before that was very Word of the Father?

The Son proceeds from the Father. That is true yesterday, today, and tomorrow. Heb 13:8 - Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

What do you mean by "eternity past?"