Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Im sorry friend but you lack understanding of the truth, I really cant help you either with that problem
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Acts 13:48 and Election
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Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Its still about the elect
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
According to Prov 16:4 who made the wicked ?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
C/R is still a non-biblical view. When the foundation is faulty so is the house built on it.
You would have to prove via scripture that what you claim is biblical.
The word of God is the plumb line not your C/R view.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Yes God can use various people for various reasons but what does that prove? What I see in your comments is a desperate attempt to support your C/R view, and you are failing.
Odd how you will latch onto a verse in proverbs but you will deny a clear verse in
John
Joh 3:17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
or
1 Timothy
1Ti 2:3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Because they do not fit your philosophical view.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
You not receptive
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
So God made evil if He made the wicked, are the wicked evil ?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
To the word of God YES to the philosophy of the C/R NO.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
What are you prattling on about.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Ive presented to you the word of God and you not receptive to it
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Did God make the wicked ? Are they morally evil ? Prov 16:4
4 The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
The word of God taken out of context is what you do.
The bible does not support your philosophy but you continue to deny this
Is this a true statement?
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
And what about these?
Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
The DoG/TULIP is in total disagreement with these bible verses and you do not understand that and will not accept the truth they present.
The C/R philosophy come from pagan roots so why would I or any bible believing Christian agree with that view?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
The assertion that “He has made the wicked for the day of evil,” does not mean that He created any one for punishment—i.e., predestined him for destruction. It only teaches that even the wicked are subservient to God’s eternal purposes. God is sovereign and has made all accountable to him. All will answer to him. The wicked with judgment. The righteous with blessing.
Now from the C/R view then I can see where you would conclude that God actually did create some for punishment as you think that glorifies God.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
The assertion is God made the wicked for Himself. Arent they evil immoral people God made for Himself ? It doesnt say they made themselves the wicked, now does it ?
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
@Silverhair
God did create, make some people for punishment in hell, under His just wrath for their sins, they are called in Rom 9 the vessels of wrath being fitted for destruction Rom 9:20-22
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
This compliments Prov 16:4 and Rom 9 is Pauline Theology, or Apostoli Doctrine
God did create, make some people for punishment in hell, under His just wrath for their sins, they are called in Rom 9 the vessels of wrath being fitted for destruction Rom 9:20-22
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
This compliments Prov 16:4 and Rom 9 is Pauline Theology, or Apostoli Doctrine
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
When have I rejected the word of God BF? Your misuse of the word of God is what I reject.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Do you agree or disagree with what I posted?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
It seems best to let a scholar answer your question
(Rom. 9:22-23) Does God create people only to damn them?
CLAIM: The text seems to imply that God created some people only to allow them to burn in hell.
RESPONSE: In response to this interpretation, a number of points can be made.
{Rom 9:22}
What if G1487 G1161 God G2316, wanting G2309 (G5723) to show G1731 (G5670) His wrath G3709 and G2532 to make G1107 (00) His G846 power G1415 known G1107 (G5658), endured G5342 (G5656) with G1722 much G4183 longsuffering G3115 the vessels G4632 of wrath G3709 prepared G2675 (G5772) for G1519 destruction G684,
{Rom 9:23}
and G2532 that G2443 He might make known G1107 (G5661) the riches G4149 of His G846 glory G1391 on G1909 the vessels G4632 of mercy G1656, which G3739 He had prepared beforehand G4282 (G5656) for G1519 glory G1391, NKJV
First, Paul uses different words for “prepared” in verses 22 and 23. The Greek words are katartizo G2675 vs 22 and proetoimazo G4282 vs 23. These two Greek words are both translated as “prepared” in the NASB, & NKJV but in the Greek, they aren’t even in the same word family. The New Living Translation shows the difference between the two (see also the KJV).
Second, there is no subject that “fits” the unbelievers for destruction, but God is the subject who “prepares” believers. There is a subtle difference between verses 22 and 23. God is not the subject of the sentence in verse 22, but he is the subject of the sentence in verse 23. In other words, God does not fit or prepare the unbeliever to hell; they “fit” themselves.(verse 22) How? By rejecting the Savior. On the other hand, God is the one who prepares believers. (verse 23)
Third, these vessels of wrath might turn and become vessels of mercy. There is no fatalism in Romans 9. Paul has been warning them from the beginning of his letter to turn to God and become vessels of mercy (Rom_2:4). However, he writes, “But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God” (Rom_2:5). Paul is explaining that these vessels of wrath are able to become objects of his mercy, if they merely turn to him in faith. In the next chapter, Paul writes that God invited the people “all day long,” but “they were disobedient and rebellious” NLT (Rom_10:21).
Fourth, the clay and the potter illustration comes from the OT, which refers to God’s sovereignty over the nations. Jeremiah writes, “Behold, like the clay in the potter’s hand, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel. At one moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to uproot, to pull down, or to destroy it… (Jer_18:6-7) or at another moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to build up or to plant it” (Jer_18:9). Here, God tells the Jews not to be surprised if he decides to use one nation or another, because he is the Maker and they are the clay. Isaiah writes, “Woe to the one who quarrels with his Maker –An earthenware vessel among the vessels of earth! Will the clay say to the potter, ‘What are you doing?’ Or the thing you are making say, ‘He has no hands’?” (Isa_45:9) In this section of Isaiah, the Jews are surprised to hear God call Cyrus (a bloodthirsty, Pagan king) his anointed one (Isa_44:28 - Isa_45:1)! God tells his people that he can choose to work through whomever he wants –even a Gentile. This is the purpose of the illustration.
Does God create people only to damn them?
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
You really asking me that ? Everytime I present it to you, you reject it, find some excuse to
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