What mans religion teaches about faith and repentance !

[Zaatar71]

Calvinists/Reformed have it backwards
Calvinists teach that we must be born again with life from the Holy Spirit before we may respond to God in any way.

“A cardinal point of Reformed theology is the maxim: ‘Regeneration precedes faith.’ [R.C. Sproul Chosen By God, pp.72-73].

“A man is not saved because he believes in Christ; he believes in Christ because he is saved”. [L. Boettner The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination, Page 75]

They have a person saved prior to them believing in Christ Jesus.

Regeneration: In theology, new birth by the grace of God; that change by which the will and natural enmity of man to God and his law are subdued, and a principle of supreme love to God and his law, or holy affections, are implanted in the heart. Webster

Thanks for your helpful post,and the references.

 

[Silverhair]

Thanks for your helpful post,and the references.

Please note I am not questioning whether those that hold to the C/R position are saved or not, I am now and will continue to question their understanding scripture.

If you have any questions you can PM me and I will help you in whatever way I can.

 

[Zaatar71]

Thanks for your helpful post,and the references.

Thanks, I will look up what you offered.

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

Perhaps this may be another:

helpful post,and the references.

You notice No.25, 'Repentance and Faith' is couched in among and between
and after several other subject matters handled there and before some others:

13. The Creation of Man
14. The Essential Elements of Human Nature
15. The Moral Nature of Man
16. The Original State and Fall of Man
17. The Doctrine of Sin
18. Human Responsibility
19. The Free Agency of Man
20. The Doctrine of Election
21. The Doctrine of the Atonement
22. The Outward and Inward Calls
23. The New Birth
24. The Doctrine of Conversion
25. Repentance and Faith
26. The Doctrine of Justification
27. The Doctrine of Sanctification
28. The Three Tenses of Salvation

These are from T.P. Simmons' Studies in Systematic Theology.

I hope you see his treatment of Repentance, first, then Faith separately, and finally where he deals with Repentance and Faith together, as Twin-Doctrines, to be a fair work concerning what The Bible teaches us about Repentance and Faith and not just what the O.P. suggests that man's religion might teach.

Excerpts from: https://www.angelfire.com/oh4/questions4/simmons/repent.htm

3. THE CONSTITUENT ELEMENTS OF REPENTANCE.

(1) Sin Admitted-Conviction

"Man must see himself as unlike God and in rebellion against God. He must see the opposition between his condition and the holiness of God. He must see that God abhors his condition and state. The recognition of sin that enters into repentance unto salvation is concerned primarily, not with the fact that sin brings punishment, but with the fact that sin offends God. There is, of course, a fear of the eternal consequences of sin; but this is not the primary thing.

"This recognition of sin is conviction, and it constitutes the intellectual element in repentance.

(2) Sin Abhorred-Contrition.

"Godly sorrow enters into repentance. When one sees himself as he appears before God he is brought to regret his sin and to abhor it. This is the emotional element in repentance.

(3) Sin Abandoned-Conversion.

"Repentance is not complete until there is an inward abandoning of sin which leads to an outward change of conduct. This is the voluntary or volitional element in repentance. Thus repentance concerns the whole inner nature: intellect, emotion, and will."

6. REPENTANCE IS A GIFT OF GOD.

"The three following passages prove this:

"Him did God exalt with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, to give repentance to Israel, and remission of sins" (Acts 5:31).

"And when they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then to the Gentiles also hath God granted repentance unto life" (Acts ll:18).

"The Lord's servant must not strive, but be gentle towards all, apt to teach, forbearing, in meekness correcting them that oppose themselves; if peradventure God may give them repentance unto the knowledge of the truth" (2 Tim. 2:24,25).

The meaning of this is simply that repentance is wrought in man by the quickening power of the Holy Spirit, as we have already noted.

3. FAITH IS A GIFT OF GOD.

This is proved by the passages already quoted that designate repentance as a gift of God; for as we shall see, repentance and faith are inseparable graces. Each one, when appearing alone in the Scriptures, embraces the other; for, if this were not true, the passages which mention only the one or the other would teach that one may be saved without both repentance and faith.

This is proved by passages which teach that our coming to Christ and believing on Him are the result of the working of God's power. See John 6:37, 65; Eph. 1:19, 20. This is further proved by the fact that faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit (Gal. 5:22)."

 

[Brightfame52]

In Gospel preaching, instead of faith/repentance being conditions man must perform in order for God to justify them or make them righteous, they are to be acknowledged and received as Spiritual Blessings from Christ being risen as their Savor, along with remission of sins, as Peter points out in his sermon Acts 5:31

Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.


The greek word give is the the verb didōmi and means:

1. to give something to someone
   
   
   1. of one's own accord to give one something, to his advantage
      
      1. to bestow a gift

1. to supply, furnish, necessary things
   
   The giving of these things are necessary in constituting Christ a Savior from sin !
   
   Faith and Repentance are necessary furnishings to do the will of God !

 

[Brightfame52]

That is a lame excuse there BF. Are you not capable of reading a text.

What do you think those verse say other than what the clear text shows.

But you do agree with them so you must have had a change of mind from your deterministic philosophy.

Good to see that the light of truth is starting to shine in you.

So far I have never agreed with you, you have constantly taught conditional salvation, based upon the doings of men.

 

[Brightfame52]

Yet another gobbly-gook post. How does a person receive the reconciliation provided by Christ's sacrifice on the cross? Do we, if we repent from going our own way and turn to God and trust fully in Christ as our savor plus nothing, automatically save ourselves. Nope.

But are they "pre-conditions" enabling possible access to God's grace? Yes. Only when and if God credits a person's faith as righteousness does God transfer that person into Christ, thus the person "believed into Christ." But only if God made the determination, not the human.

Christ did not die for specific pre-chosen individuals, He died as a ransom for all. God chooses individuals during their physical lifetime, after they "believe in the truth." 2 Thessalonians 2:13

A person is reconciled to God by His Death, thats a legal transaction, its a done deal without the reconciled one having faith or repentance.

 

[Brightfame52]

@Alan Dale Gross

The Baptist London Confession of Faith of 1689, says God is Able to Justify the sinner, after they are Made Righteous,
which is the result of the sinner's sin, first, having being Pardoned.

"Of Justification", point 1 has;

"(a) Those whom God Effectually Calleth, He also freely a Justifieth,
not by infusing Righteousness into them, but by (b) Pardoning their sins,
and by Accounting and Accepting their persons as (c) Righteous;

"not for anything wrought in them, or done by them, but for Christ’s Sake alone;

"not by Imputing Faith itself, the Act of believing, or any other (d) Evangelical Obedience to them, as their Righteousness;

"but by Imputing Christ’s Active Obedience unto the whole law,
and Passive Obedience in His death for their whole and sole Righteousness,

they (e) receiving and resting on Him and His Righteousness, by Faith, which Faith they have not of themselves; it is the Gift of God.
( a Rom 3:24, 8:30; b Rom 4:5-8; Eph 1:7; c 1Co 1:30-31; Rom 5:17-19; d Phi 3:8-9; Eph 2:8-10; e Joh 1:12; Rom 5:17).

I can agree with this !

 

[Silverhair]

So far I have never agreed with you, you have constantly taught conditional salvation, based upon the doings of men.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Joh 20:31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

Act 16:30 And he brought them out and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
Act 16:31 So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Only God saves but He only saves those that believe.

Your philosophy says no condition the Bible says the condition is faith in the Risen Christ.

I will trust the word of God over some man-made philosophy.

 

[Silverhair]

A person is reconciled to God by His Death, thats a legal transaction, its a done deal without the reconciled one having faith or repentance.

Rom_5:10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
2Co_5:20 Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God.

BF no one was saved at the cross as Paul makes clear:
1Co 15:17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!

We are saved by faith in the risen Christ not the one in the grave.

 

[Brightfame52]

@Silverhair

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Joh 20:31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

Act 16:30 And he brought them out and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
Act 16:31 So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Yet these are not your words.

 

[Brightfame52]

Rom_5:10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
2Co_5:20 Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God.

BF no one was saved at the cross as Paul makes clear:
1Co 15:17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!

We are saved by faith in the risen Christ not the one in the grave.

The reconciled legally by His Death, shall be saved by His Life. So the reconciled are saved, and shall be saved in the day of Christ

 

[Van]

A person is reconciled to God by His Death, thats a legal transaction, its a done deal without the reconciled one having faith or repentance.

Your claim is pure fiction. A person receives the reconciliation provided by Christ's sacrifice when God alone transfers the individual spiritually into Christ's body, Romans 5:11. Note the timing of Paul writing Romans, about 20 years after Christ died, but his inspired wording says "now" we have received the reconciliation. The conflation of Christ's death and reconciliation of believers is hogwash. They are two separate actions of God.

When Christ died on the cross, He became the means of reconciliation for the whole of humanity, 1 John 2:2

 

[Brightfame52]

Your claim is pure fiction. A person receives the reconciliation provided by Christ's sacrifice when God alone transfers the individual spiritually into Christ's body, Romans 5:11. Note the timing of Paul writing Romans, about 20 years after Christ died, but his inspired wording says "now" we have received the reconciliation. The conflation of Christ's death and reconciliation of believers is hogwash. They are two separate actions of God.

When Christ died on the cross, He became the means of reconciliation for the whole of humanity, 1 John 2:2

A person is reconciled to God by His Death while an enemy. Rom 5:10 so when he is being an enemy he doesnt have faith, he is an enemy. Now do you agree with that ?

 

[Van]

A person is reconciled to God by His Death while an enemy. Rom 5:10 so when he is being an enemy he doesnt have faith, he is an enemy. Now do you agree with that ?

More nonsense, more false claims. Christ died for the lost while they were still enemies, still sinners, still fallen, still dead in our trespasses.
Clearly the second and their soils were still lost, still fallen when they received the gospel with joy or did not make Christ their overriding priority, (see Matthew 13:18-23) showing the fallen come to faith, then are chosen if God credits that "faith" as righteousness.

 

[Silverhair]

@Silverhair



Yet these are not your words.

Never said they were. They are the words of God so we should pay attention to them.

 

[Silverhair]

The reconciled legally by His Death, shall be saved by His Life. So the reconciled are saved, and shall be saved in the day of Christ

Not what the bible say BF.

His death covered all off humanities sins [1 Jn 2:2] but we are only saved by faith in the risen Christ. [1 Co 15:17]

 

[Brightfame52]

More nonsense, more false claims. Christ died for the lost while they were still enemies, still sinners, still fallen, still dead in our trespasses.
Clearly the second and their soils were still lost, still fallen when they received the gospel with joy or did not make Christ their overriding priority, (see Matthew 13:18-23) showing the fallen come to faith, then are chosen if God credits that "faith" as righteousness.

A person is reconciled to God by His Death while an enemy. Rom 5:10 so when he is being an enemy he doesnt have faith, he is an enemy. Now do you agree with that ? Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

 

[Brightfame52]

Never said they were. They are the words of God so we should pay attention to them.

Its your words Im in disagreement with, not the words of scripture, lest you feel your words and the words of scripture are one and the same

 

[Brightfame52]

Not what the bible say BF.

His death covered all off humanities sins [1 Jn 2:2] but we are only saved by faith in the risen Christ. [1 Co 15:17]

According to Rom 5:10 how were they reconciled and what condition were they in at the time ? Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.