What mans religion teaches about faith and repentance !

[Brightfame52]

There's the boast right there David, you think you were so special that you were chosen B4 the foundation of the world.

That is not biblical but you continue too claim that you were.

To tell the truth the elect people God has chosen, are special to God, over and above all others, and that should be acknowledged Deut 7:6-7

6 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

So the people Chosen by God in Christ before the foundation of world Eph 1:4 are no doubt to Him special !

 

[Silverhair]

But the verse in question says:

“just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,” (Eph 1:4 NKJV)

How can "chose us" mean "chose the means of salvation?"

David the error is when you add the words "to be" to the text. God did not chose us "to be" in Him before the foundation of the world.

Those that think they were chosen to "be in" Him are boasting that they are special.

 

[Silverhair]

Well, I too believe I was chosen before the foundation of the world, but I also know I needed to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved, and to repent. You seem to know Brightfame52 very well to be able to know that they never believed and repented. Either that, or you are making a false assumption.

Look at the religion that he holds to, he did not repent or believe God did it for him.

You can believe that David but the bible does not support that view.

 

[Silverhair]

To tell the truth the elect people God has chosen, are special to God, over and above all others, and that should be acknowledged Deut 7:6-7

6 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

So the people Chosen by God in Christ before the foundation of world Eph 1:4 are no doubt to Him special !

Why do you continue to take verses out of context and force your philosophy into them?

You do know that God was speaking o the nation of Israel.

This is why your religion is so mess up. You are not trusting the bible you are trusting what some man has told you the bible says.

 

[Brightfame52]

David the error is when you add the words "to be" to the text. God did not chose us "to be" in Him before the foundation of the world.

Those that think they were chosen to "be in" Him are boasting that they are special.

I believe thats an unjust accusation on a person. May God be judge of whats in a persons heart

 

[Brightfame52]

Why do you continue to take verses out of context and force your philosophy into them?

You do know that God was speaking o the nation of Israel.

This is why your religion is so mess up. You are not trusting the bible you are trusting what some man has told you the bible says.

Nothing out of context, God chooses people and they are special to Him. Now dont you think sinners God gave His Son to die for are special people to Him ? Why would He die for a people He didnt value and Love as special ? Jn 15:13

Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

 

[Brightfame52]

David the error is when you add the words "to be" to the text. God did not chose us "to be" in Him before the foundation of the world.

Those that think they were chosen to "be in" Him are boasting that they are special.

Yes He did choose people in Christ b4 the foundation of the world, not to be in Christ as in a later date, no They were chosen in Him, in union with Him when He was also Chosen before the foundation of the world, for Jesus is Chosen of God. Just as the chosen had a union with adam at the beginning of the world, they were in adam, so likewise as the chosen had a union with Christ b4 the foundation, they were in Him before the foundation, Christs Headship of people preexisted the adamic headship. So the elect in Christ before the foundation were also Loved by God b4 the world began as He Loved their Head before the world began:

Jn 17:23-24

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

 

[Brightfame52]

@Charlie24

In Acts 2:38, Peter gives those instructions, he tells them to "Repent" and that must be done by the individual.

Right they were given instructions as new born babes in Christ, also Peter told them a little later that Jesus had given them Israel repentance Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Peter in Acts 2:38 was specifically addressing Israel, look at Vs 22,36

22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

You are lifting a scripture out of its historical context and teaching conditions, when Peter isn't teaching that, He is actually instructing new born spiritual jews to be baptized n Jesus name, not to get saved, but because they are saved and have remission of their sins

 

[Charlie24]

@Charlie24



Right they were given instructions as new born babes in Christ, also Peter told them a little later that Jesus had given them Israel repentance Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Peter in Acts 2:38 was specifically addressing Israel, look at Vs 22,36

22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

You are lifting a scripture out of its historical context and teaching conditions, when Peter isn't teaching that, He is actually instructing new born spiritual jews to be baptized n Jesus name, not to get saved, but because they are saved and have remission of their sins

So to clear up the matter, I take it that you don't have to repent personally, repentance has been given to you as a gift from Christ.

Am I in the ballpark?

 

[Brightfame52]

So to clear up the matter, I take it that you don't have to repent personally, repentance has been given to you as a gift from Christ.

Am I in the ballpark?

This thread isn't about me personally, or you personally friend. Its about Jesus Christ, its about contending against the false teaching that faith and repentance are conditions to perform by men to get saved. I'm highlighting from scripture that faith and repentance are special gifts from Jesus Christ to them He saves. They are not conditions but given gifts that cause faith and repentance.

 

[Charlie24]

This thread isn't about me personally, or you personally friend. Its about Jesus Christ, its about contending against the false teaching that faith and repentance are conditions to perform by men to get saved. I'm highlighting from scripture that faith and repentance are special gifts from Jesus Christ to them He saves. They are not conditions but given gifts that cause faith and repentance.

OK, sorry, I didn't mean to get personal. I though that since we have had conversation for several years on different sites I could ask that question.

I see it was too personal and I respect that, and apologize.

 

[Silverhair]

Again Peter preached as Jesus instructed him, that repentance is a gift given by Him, given in Hs Name Lk 24:46-47

46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Yet religionist have stolen the gifts of repentance and faith to be given by the risen Christ to them He saved, and turn them into conditions man must meet to get saved. Thats very foul !

I agree that "repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations" But preaching does not save anyone. The person have to trust in God before God will save them.

Study Eph 1:13, Rom 10: 9-10, Rom 1:16, Rom 10:13, Joh 3:14-18. Man has to respond which is something that you just cannot get a grasp of.

You keep looking for out of context verses that you think support your view.

The C/R religion is not biblical.

 

[Silverhair]

I believe thats an unjust accusation on a person. May God be judge of whats in a persons heart

You call it unjust, I say it is the responsibility of Christians to point out the errors that we see other Christians making.

 

[Silverhair]

Nothing out of context, God chooses people and they are special to Him. Now dont you think sinners God gave His Son to die for are special people to Him ? Why would He die for a people He didnt value and Love as special ? Jn 15:13

Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

All of creation is special to Him and His desire is for all humanity to come to repentance [1Ti_2:3-4] that is why He sent His son to be the propitiation for all sinners [1Jn_2:2].

But for whom did Christ die; 1Jn_2:2 propitiation for the whole world, 1Ti_4:10 Savior of all men, especially of believers, 1Ti_2:6 gave Himself a ransom for all, Rom_5:6 Christ died for the ungodly.

That is why Peter said "...He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that He is the One appointed by God to judge the living and the dead. All the prophets testify about Him that everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins through His name. Act 10:42-43"

You asked "Why would He die for a people He didnt value and Love as special ?" But that is what I have been trying get you to understand BF, He did die for those He loves [Joh 3:14-17]

How could He make it any clearer for you?

You are so committed to your calvinist religion that you will deny the clear word of God.

 

[Brightfame52]

@Silverhair

I agree that "repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations" But preaching does not save anyone. The person have to trust in God before God will save them.

Who said anything about preaching saving anyone ? You out the blue made that up and interjected it into the discussion. However its to be preached that both repentance and remission of sins are given in the Name of Christ, not as conditions, He gives them to the ones He saves. Peter who heard this commission, would Preach the both repentance and forgiveness of sins are given by Jesus as He is at the Right Hand of God Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Israel here is not national israel, but His Body the Church, He is the Saviour of the Body Eph 5:23

23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

 

[Silverhair]

Yes He did choose people in Christ b4 the foundation of the world, not to be in Christ as in a later date, no They were chosen in Him, in union with Him when He was also Chosen before the foundation of the world, for Jesus is Chosen of God. Just as the chosen had a union with adam at the beginning of the world, they were in adam, so likewise as the chosen had a union with Christ b4 the foundation, they were in Him before the foundation, Christs Headship of people preexisted the adamic headship. So the elect in Christ before the foundation were also Loved by God b4 the world began as He Loved their Head before the world began:

Jn 17:23-24

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

BF you are reading your religion into the text rather than letting the text teach you.

Question for you BF, when you are in Christ are you saved? If you say NO then you do not understand your bible. If you say YES then you are claiming that you were saved B4 creation which is not biblical.

 

[Brightfame52]

You call it unjust, I say it is the responsibility of Christians to point out the errors that we see other Christians making.

It was unjust, and highly judgmental in a negative critical way

 

[Brightfame52]

BF you are reading your religion into the text rather than letting the text teach you.

Question for you BF, when you are in Christ are you saved? If you say NO then you do not understand your bible. If you say YES then you are claiming that you were saved B4 creation which is not biblical.

You are resisting the Truth, as always

 

[Brightfame52]

@Silverhair

All of creation is special to Him and His desire is for all humanity to come to repentance [1Ti_2:3-4] that is why He sent His son to be the propitiation for all sinners [1Jn_2:2].

False, all people are not special to God, He has a chosen People that are special to Him Deut 7:6-7

6 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

This corresponds to His Chosen People in Christ, whom He Loved Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

The church is a special people to God. Now that word special in Deut 7:6 is the hebrew word sᵊḡullâ:

1. possession, property
   1. valued property, peculiar treasure
   2. treasure

Thats how the chosen in Christ are to Him, in Titus 2:14 the redeemed church is a peculiar people Titus 2:14

Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Peculiar here περιούσιον :

1. that which is one's own, belonging to one's possessions
   1. a people selected by God from the other nations for his own possession

The special people of God are selected out from other nations

 

[Silverhair]

@Silverhair



Who said anything about preaching saving anyone ? You out the blue made that up and interjected it into the discussion. However its to be preached that both repentance and remission of sins are given in the Name of Christ, not as conditions, He gives them to the ones He saves. Peter who heard this commission, would Preach the both repentance and forgiveness of sins are given by Jesus as He is at the Right Hand of God Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Israel here is not national israel, but His Body the Church, He is the Saviour of the Body Eph 5:23

23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

It is obvious that you have not thought through what you just posted BF.

did this save all Israel? Acts 5:31
There are only two possible interpretations that can be made from Peter’s statement.
Either God was sovereignly giving each and every totally-depraved, unable-to-repent Israelite the ability and the will to repent by His irresistible grace (note that Peter said that Jesus granted repentance to Israel, not some Israelites),

or God was granting all Israel, individually and corporately, the opportunity to repent, as well as His gracious help in their repentance.
If the first interpretation is correct, then every Israelite would have been saved, because, as already noted, God granted repentance to Israel, that is, the whole nation, and not certain individual Israelites. If Calvinists apply their doctrine to this scripture, they would have to conclude that God was bestowing His irresistible grace upon every Israelite. Of course, all Israel was not saved, thus proving that the first interpretation is incorrect.

This leaves us with only the second interpretation remaining, and it is the only one that makes sense and harmonizes with the rest of Scripture. Because God has given man freewill, man has a part (albeit a very small part compared with God’s part) in his own salvation. He must turn to Jesus in faith if he is to be saved.

God takes the initiative, loves the sinner, dies for him, draws and convicts him by His creation, His providence and Spirit, sends messengers to him, sometimes performs miracles before him, offers him salvation, and gives him the opportunity to repent and believe.

If the man yields to all this influence, believing the gospel and humbling his proud heart, God’s grace continues to work, graciously helping him to repent by the Holy Spirit’s power, just as He helps the man all the rest of his Christian life to obey God. Both God and man play a part in man’s repentance and ongoing sanctification. David Servant


cf Act_3:26 ; Act_11:18

God, who sent his son to be the “true light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man” Joh_1:9, but not everyone wants to recieve this light Joh_3:19 although God has made it possible for all men to do so Rom_1:19