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The False Gospel of Arminianism
- Thread starter KenH
- Start date
All I can do is show you from Scripture that it is indeed a requirement to be saved.
I can't make you believe it, that is totally your choice as to what you will believe.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
@KenH
Okay thats fine
I actually agree with Justification by Faith at the point of God given Faith, but thats b4 our consciousness, Justification b4 God was prior to that by the blood of Christ.
I agree, in fact I believe the elect were Justified then b4 God based on Christs Suretyship, the elects condemnation was then the responsibility of Christ as Surety, so technically they were not condemned based on that fact.
Yep, but Sonny from what I read of him, denies adamantly Justification at the Cross !
Me too, its only consistent imo
I agree with that, but yet I believe Christs Suretyship for the sins of the elect bride was from the foundation of the world, and so legally, the sins of the elect, were already Judicially Christs responsibility, leaving them Justified from them.
Okay thats fine
I actually agree with Justification by Faith at the point of God given Faith, but thats b4 our consciousness, Justification b4 God was prior to that by the blood of Christ.
I agree, in fact I believe the elect were Justified then b4 God based on Christs Suretyship, the elects condemnation was then the responsibility of Christ as Surety, so technically they were not condemned based on that fact.
Yep, but Sonny from what I read of him, denies adamantly Justification at the Cross !
Me too, its only consistent imo
I agree with that, but yet I believe Christs Suretyship for the sins of the elect bride was from the foundation of the world, and so legally, the sins of the elect, were already Judicially Christs responsibility, leaving them Justified from them.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
I find that very inconsistent though, Ive explained why. It seems to me they make faith to be the condition, if b4 faith they are unjustified b4 God and condemned. If Christ hath fulfilled all the conditions, how then do you explain the elect being condemned by God when they are born into the world as ungodly sinners ?
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Some hold to that view.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
I dont think you understand my view, dont seem like it.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Lol, its a work, an act of the mind and heart. The word ergon the greek word for word is:
Work, deed, action, task, labor
Meaning: work, task, employment; a deed, action; that which is wrought or made, a work.
2041 érgon (from ergō, "to work, accomplish") – a work or worker who accomplishes something. 2041 /érgon ("work") is a deed (action) that carries out (completes) an inner desire (intension, purpose).
Now its either the work of God in you, a fruit of the Spirit, or the work of your flesh and mind,
Paul said, "without faith it is impossible to please God."
Did you choose to believe God or do you believe God chose you and you have no responsibility to believe, that you are saved no matter what happens.?
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
okay
BF, what does this verse implicate? Just use common sense, it's not difficult.
John 23:37
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
KenH
Well-Known Member
The status of God's elect was set in eternity and never changes.
God's elect's state on this earth does change, as they are born spiritually dead sinners just as those whom God reprobated from eternity are born, but their state changes when God brings them under the hearing of the gospel of Christ and the Holy Spirit regenerates them, giving them spiritual life(the new birth, being born from above), and gives them the gift of faith in the finished work of Christ and the gift of repentance of dead works.
KenH
Well-Known Member
"Our Lord is to be understood not of his divine will, as God, to gather the people of the Jews internally, by his Spirit and grace, to himself; for all those whom Christ would gather, in this sense, were gathered, notwithstanding all the opposition made by the rulers of the people; but of his human affection and will, as a man, and a minister, to gather them to him externally, by, and under the ministry of his word, to hear him preach."
- excerpt from John Gill's Bible commentary on Matthew 23:37.
Mr. Gill is very much mistaken!
Christ wanted to save them, that is Jerusalem past, present and future, but they rejected Him.
Another example of God pleading with man that He wants to save them, but they choose not to believe Him.
KenH
Well-Known Member
"How often (saith Jesus) would I have gathered thy children together, and ye would not. Not gathered them in grace, for the Pharisees to whom Jesus was then speaking, and concerning whom he was then speaking, were never children of grace, and consequently never to be gathered. Neither is Jesus speaking of gathering to Christ; but gathering together, nationally considered. Had they, as a nation and people, received Christ instead of crucifying the Lord of life and glory, they would have been saved as a nation, and the Romans not have taken away (as they afterwards did) both the nation and people. How totally ignorant must those men be, who construe our Lord's expressions here concerning Jerusalem, into a sense with which it hath no connection; and, instead of considering it as our Lord's lamentation over the temporal ruin which was coming upon his countrymen, as a nation, which he foresaw and foretold, take a latitude from it, as if a man might outstay the time of grace, and lose, contrary to God's design, his own eternal salvation. It is a national, not an individual ruin, Christ referred to. It is a temporal, not an eternal business, the Lord is speaking of. It is the house that is left to them desolate, not the soul. Here is not a word of grace in all this, in reference to a man's making his peace with God; but so acting by an outward profession as to secure the peace of the nation. And when that desolation came upon Jerusalem, then was the Lord's words fulfilled, When the sinner, in Zion were afraid; and they were constrained to cry out, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord! Isaiah 33:14."
- excerpt from Robert Hawker's Bible commentary on Luke 13:31-35.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Im not going to labor in the word for someone who has rejected everything I said.
Gill is smart enough to dance around and avoid blasphemy, but this guy Hawker just plows right through it!
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
I know that the elect are born as ungodly sinners, however Christ has paid for their sin debt b4 God. How can they yet still be condemned for it . Are you intimating that what Christ accomplished for the elect at the Cross isnt Justifying b4 God until they are regenerated and believe ?
I hope in the end your labor is not found in vain, my friend.
KenH
Well-Known Member
I see no difference between Gill and Hawker. I am not quoting everything, as Gill especially writes a lot in his commentary. He also wrote on Matthew 23:37 right after what I quoted above in post #32:
"so as that they might be brought to a conviction of, and an assent unto him as the Messiah; which, though it might fall short of faith in him, would have been sufficient to have preserved them from temporal ruin, threatened to their city and temple, in the following verse."
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Don't worry about me, just dont ask me to explain verses to you when the labor I have already put forth, you reject it.