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4K Years Without A Bible For The Nations! What Was God Thinking?

J

JD731

Well-Known Member
Twenty Five hundred years passed before a word of Scripture. Then only to one small nation that God himself birthed. He wrote things to them that pertained to them and sometimes it was about other nations but not to them. The first letter in the canon ever addressed to gentiles was the Epistle of Paul to the Romans. It was written in 58 AD, this is the beginning of the 5th Millennium of world history. The first epistle written to people who were not of the stock of Abraham was the first epistle of Paul to the Thessalonians, penned in 51 AD,

The introduction of the written word of God to gentiles was in a 7 verse sentence, Romans 1:1-7.This sentence stated the theme on New testament history in the very first clause. The theme of this age is "the gospel of God" which includes "the gospel of Christ" to the nations.

Rom 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets [all of them Israelites] in the holy scriptures)

3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

6 Among whom are ye (gentiles at Rome) also the called of Jesus Christ:

7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

The gospel of God defined;

Rom 16:24 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel (Paul's gospel, good new, the apostle to the gentiles), and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.

Now we have 13 letters just to us gentiles. Praise God he wrote to us.
 
J

JD731

Well-Known Member
The word of God is eternal, but the written word is a matter of grace. It is for our edification but not our salvation.

Few people of the planet will believe this but we are given four (there is that # 4 again) things about the written word and getting saved by it is not among them

2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
 
M

Marooncat79

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
JD731 said:
Twenty Five hundred years passed before a word of Scripture. Then only to one small nation that God himself birthed. He wrote things to them that pertained to them and sometimes it was about other nations but not to them. The first letter in the canon ever addressed to gentiles was the Epistle of Paul to the Romans. It was written in 58 AD, this is the beginning of the 5th Millennium of world history. The first epistle written to people who were not of the stock of Abraham was the first epistle of Paul to the Thessalonians, penned in 51 AD,

The introduction of the written word of God to gentiles was in a 7 verse sentence, Romans 1:1-7.This sentence stated the theme on New testament history in the very first clause. The theme of this age is "the gospel of God" which includes "the gospel of Christ" to the nations.

Rom 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets [all of them Israelites] in the holy scriptures)

3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

6 Among whom are ye (gentiles at Rome) also the called of Jesus Christ:

7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

The gospel of God defined;

Rom 16:24 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel (Paul's gospel, good new, the apostle to the gentiles), and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.

Now we have 13 letters just to us gentiles. Praise God he wrote to us.
Click to expand...
They apply to Jews as well
 
J

JD731

Well-Known Member
Marooncat79 said:
They apply to Jews as well
Click to expand...
The Jews are gentiles in the economy of God after the dispersion from their land by the Romans in AD 70. This was a burial of a nation of people in the graveyard of other dead nations in the world. If any Jews would be saved after this, it would be as the gentiles, one at a time. Time does not move for someone who is dead. We have Jewish apostolic verbiage that actually says that after the first missionary campaign to the gentiles in the region of Galatia in Asia Minor.

Acts 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command [them] to keep the law of Moses.
6 ¶ And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men [and] brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as [he did] unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

One would logically think that since the Jews were being saved long before the gentiles, V 8 & 9, he would have said they will be saved even as us.

But here is some commentary on why he said this;

12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men [and] brethren, hearken unto me:
14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name (one at a time).
15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
16 After this (the purpose stated in V 14) I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and [from] fornication, and [from] things strangled, and [from] blood.
21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

The resurrection of this nation and her eternal salvation is a purpose of God to be realized after the gentile church is complete.

So yes, you are correct. These epistles apply to Jews because they are in gentile nations all over the world and cut off from their covenant promises. God loves his people, the Jews, with a love we cannot understand. We gentiles are accepted in the Beloved because of them.

Ro 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

From Romans 7:1 Paul had been speaking to those who knew the law of Moses, which would be Jews and proselytes, about the Jews since Christ's resurrection. In 11:13, he begins to speak to the gentiles about how things that had developed with the Jews and how it impacts us and how we should react to it.

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

I apologize about a long post but I know you do not believe in a national resurrection of Israel and their salvation and distinction from the NT church of Jesus Christ, but the text from which I am quoting clearly says so.

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

Praise God for the Jews!
 
M

Marooncat79

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Do OT and NT saints believe in The same God? Yes

Are OT and NT saints saved in the same way? Yes, Hebrews 11 makes this abundantly clear. People from throughout Church History were always saved through faith — Abram through now. Actually even further back

Is the end result for OT and NT the same? Yes, the salvation of our souls is in view w Heaven as the end goal
 
M

Marooncat79

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
JD731 said:
Twenty Five hundred years passed before a word of Scripture. Then only to one small nation that God himself birthed. He wrote things to them that pertained to them and sometimes it was about other nations but not to them. The first letter in the canon ever addressed to gentiles was the Epistle of Paul to the Romans. It was written in 58 AD, this is the beginning of the 5th Millennium of world history. The first epistle written to people who were not of the stock of Abraham was the first epistle of Paul to the Thessalonians, penned in 51 AD,

The introduction of the written word of God to gentiles was in a 7 verse sentence, Romans 1:1-7.This sentence stated the theme on New testament history in the very first clause. The theme of this age is "the gospel of God" which includes "the gospel of Christ" to the nations.

Rom 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets [all of them Israelites] in the holy scriptures)

3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

6 Among whom are ye (gentiles at Rome) also the called of Jesus Christ:

7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

The gospel of God defined;

Rom 16:24 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel (Paul's gospel, good new, the apostle to the gentiles), and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.

Now we have 13 letters just to us gentiles. Praise God he wrote to us.
Click to expand...

All of Gods Word is for all of His people throughout all of history
 
KJB1611reader

KJB1611reader

Member
Marooncat79 said:
Do OT and NT saints believe in The same God? Yes

Are OT and NT saints saved in the same way? Yes, Hebrews 11 makes this abundantly clear. People from throughout Church History were always saved through faith — Abram through now. Actually even further back

Is the end result for OT and NT the same? Yes, the salvation of our souls is in view w Heaven as the end goal
Click to expand...
No to second.
 
M

Marooncat79

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
JD731 said:
Twenty Five hundred years passed before a word of Scripture. Then only to one small nation that God himself birthed. He wrote things to them that pertained to them and sometimes it was about other nations but not to them. The first letter in the canon ever addressed to gentiles was the Epistle of Paul to the Romans. It was written in 58 AD, this is the beginning of the 5th Millennium of world history. The first epistle written to people who were not of the stock of Abraham was the first epistle of Paul to the Thessalonians, penned in 51 AD,

The introduction of the written word of God to gentiles was in a 7 verse sentence, Romans 1:1-7.This sentence stated the theme on New testament history in the very first clause. The theme of this age is "the gospel of God" which includes "the gospel of Christ" to the nations.

Rom 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets [all of them Israelites] in the holy scriptures)

3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

6 Among whom are ye (gentiles at Rome) also the called of Jesus Christ:

7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

The gospel of God defined;

Rom 16:24 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel (Paul's gospel, good new, the apostle to the gentiles), and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.

Now we have 13 letters just to us gentiles. Praise God he wrote to
Click to expand...
KJB1611reader said:
No to second.
Click to expand...
You deny Hebrews? It speaks of before the flood Abel, after the Flood Noah and before, Moses during the time of the Law. All saved by faith
 
J

JD731

Well-Known Member
Marooncat79 said:
Do OT and NT saints believe in The same God? Yes

Are OT and NT saints saved in the same way? Yes, Hebrews 11 makes this abundantly clear. People from throughout Church History were always saved through faith — Abram through now. Actually even further back

Is the end result for OT and NT the same? Yes, the salvation of our souls is in view w Heaven as the end goal
Click to expand...
May I give you a scenario that you can easily prove for yourself in a couple hours. If you are governed by faith in the words of scripture and a logical application of them, then you will even agree that your theology as stated above is off track and must be revisited.

But before I give that to you let me just say both of us would probably agree that believing the gospel of Jesus Christ, his death, burial, and resurrection is non negotiable in our salvation and if someone did not believe that Jesus rose again from the dead they are not saved. I hope you believe that.

Now for the scenario. After the beginning of the ministry of Jesus Christ at the Jordan River when he was baptized, and after he preached to Israel for 3 1/2 years, proclaiming himself to be the son of God and the promised Messiah of Israel of the OT, not one of his 12 apostles that he hand picked or none of the 70 elders, all officers of his kingdom, believed or understood that he would die for the sins of Israel, much less the sins of the world, and rise from the dead on the third day.
Each of the gospel writers said so. Moreover, there was not anyone who believed that Jesus would rise again from the dead. We do not need a theological expert to read this and tell what is said. Anyone with a 5th grade education could read this and know it is true. But, during the earthly ministry of Jesus Christ they were not required to believe that in order to be justified. They, Israel, were required to believe that Jesus was the Christ, the son of God. All who believed in him were justified but no one was saved.

If you doubt this I will come back later and quote each of them saying they knew nothing about the death and resurrection of Christ before it happened. I have done it before and not one person has indicated they believed the words of the gospel writers, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

God requires men to believe the light he gives. His revelation of himself has always been progressive. While justification has always been by faith in what God says, one must understand that he has said things different during different times of history. Now, since he is here in Spirit and his scriptures are complete, men have much more responsibility and what we believe saves us from our sins and gives us a new birth.
 
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