"Predestined According to the Purpose of Him Who Works all things According to the Counsel of His Will", Ephesians 1:11.

[atpollard]

Albert Barnes writes on Eph 1:19=20
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

Barnes as myself understands that because the elect were dead in sin, God exerted His Power in bringing about their conversion experience, which entails regeneration and faith and repentance, and then to be kept in the faith, all kudos to the Power of God, in fact the same almighty Power that raised Jesus from the dead !

On that, I agree with you and Barnes 100%.

Go God!!!! Yay!!!

 

[Silverhair]

You have been shown the Truth of scripture yet wont receive it. Its simple right in the verse Paul says we believe according to the working of Gods Power.

Eph 1:19

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe according to the working of his mighty power,

BF the context does not support your view.

The bible is not a book of one liners which is the way you seem to read it.

You are treating the bible the same way the cults do and I am sure you would condemn them for doing that so why do you do it?

Eph 1:15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
Eph 1:16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
Eph 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
Eph 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, KJV

Paul has listed what he prays the Lord will give to those who believe. And all this is according to the power of God.

These are believers that Paul is praying for BF so why would he pray for them to believe.

As I keep telling you BF read context. As long as you continue to ignore the context you will continue to make the same errors you have been making.

 

[Aaron]

And there it is, I quote Paul and you say it is not what Paul said.

I do not have one of those C/R decoder rings so I just trust what the word of God actually says.

And there is, you wrest Paul pretending to quote him.

There's nothing to decipher. A basic English grammar textbook and a concordance would serve you well.

 

[Silverhair]

On that, I agree with you and Barnes 100%.

Go God!!!! Yay!!!

So if you agree 100% with Barnes then you will have to do a rethink of what you just posted.

Ephesians 1:13
In whom ye also trusted - This stands in contrast with those who had “first” embraced the gospel.

Heard the word of truth - The gospel; called the “word” or message of truth, the word of God, etc. See Rom_10:17. The phrase “the word of truth” means “the true word or message.” It was a message unmixed with Jewish traditions or Gentile philosophy.

The gospel of your salvation - The gospel bringing salvation to you.

In whom also - In the Lord Jesus. A little different translation of this verse will convey more clearly its meaning. “In whom also, ye, having heard the word of truth, (the gospel of your salvation,) in whom having also believed, ye were sealed,” etc. The sealing was the result of believing, and that was the result of hearing the gospel; compare Rom_10:14-15. Albert Barnes' Notes on the Bible

So we see in the following verses, Paul's prayer where he is asking God to give those believers
1] the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him
2] that ye may know what is the hope of his calling
3] what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints
4] what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward
who believe
And this is all to be done
according to the working of his mighty power.

"This is the “third” thing which he was particularly desirous they should know - that they should be fully acquainted with the “power” of God in the salvation of people. He refers not merely to the power which he had evinced in their salvation, but also to what the gospel was “able” to accomplish, and which they might yet experience. The “power” referred to here as exercised toward believers does not refer to one thing merely. It is the whole series of the acts of power toward Christians which results from the work of the Redeemer. There was power exerted in their conversion. There would be power exerted in keeping them. There would be power in raising them up from the dead, and exalting them with Christ to heaven. The religion which they professed was a religion of “power.” In all the forms and stages of it the power of God was manifested toward them, and would be until they reached their final inheritance." Albert Barnes' Notes on the Bible

 

[Silverhair]

And there is, you wrest Paul pretending to quote him.

There's nothing to decipher. A basic English grammar textbook and a concordance would serve you well.

You are proving yourself a fool @Aaron.

You claim to understand the bible and you cannot even recognize a quote from the bible. And one that you C/R's love to quote.

Let's try this once again and perhaps you will actually see what the bible says

Rom 8:28 And we know that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him, who are called according to His purpose.
Rom 8:29 For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers.

I would suggest that you get a basic English grammar textbook and a concordance but I am not sure they would do you any good.

 

[Brightfame52]

@Silverhair

BF the context does not support your view.

It does, its in the context.

 

[kyredneck]

True dead people can't but those that hear and respond

Once again, dead people do nothing.

obviously are not dead are they.

Scripture is quite clear, those receiving Him, those coming to the light, God has already wrought within them. Ye MUST be born from above.

Those believing on Him already have eternal life:

He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life;......Jn 3:36

.....He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life,...Jn5:24

... He that believeth hath eternal life. Jn 6:47

Belief on Christ is the biggest indicator one can have that one has been born of God.
...

 

[Silverhair]

@Silverhair



It does, its in the context.

You can believe what you like BF but when you read the verse in the context in which it is found it does not support your understanding of the text.

You are attempting to make the bible agree with your theology when your theology should agree with the biblical text.

 

[Silverhair]

Once again, dead people do nothing.


View attachment 10883

Those believing on Him already have eternal life:

He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life;......Jn 3:36

.....He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life,...Jn5:24

... He that believeth hath eternal life. Jn 6:47

Belief on Christ is the biggest indicator one can have that one has been born of God.
...

I think you may actually be getting it KY. They hear, they believe and then being saved they have eternal life. That is just what we see in the biblical text

Joh 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment but has passed from death to life.
Joh 5:25 "Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

Note the order KY they hear, they believe, then they have eternal life.

And even the dead can hear. That must be shocking for you to see KY.

Paul stated the same thing and he made it even clearer.
Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

The sealing was the result of believing, and that was the result of hearing the gospel; compare Romans10:14-15 "How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? "

Note the order Paul describes here.
1) The saved are those who call on the name of the Lord.
2) They call because they believe.
3) They believe because they heard.
4) They heard because a preacher shared the Gospel.
Working backwards, Gospel → Hearing → Believing → Confession/Calling → Salvation.

What Paul says here is clear. The Gospel is preached, people hear it, some believe it, call on God and are saved. Sorry if that doesn’t fit into the C/R scenario.

 

[kyredneck]

I think you may actually be getting it KY. They hear, they believe and then being saved they have eternal life.

AFTER they've been quickened. Dead people can do nothing.

 

[Brightfame52]

You can believe what you like BF but when you read the verse in the context in which it is found it does not support your understanding of the text.

You are attempting to make the bible agree with your theology when your theology should agree with the biblical text.

I believe whats in the context. Believing is the result of the exertion of Gods Power Eph 1:19

And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe according to the working of his mighty power,

 

[Silverhair]

AFTER they've been quickened. Dead people can do nothing.

The text does not show or say that KY. That is just something that your C/R view requires.

 

[Silverhair]

I believe whats in the context. Believing is the result of the exertion of Gods Power Eph 1:19

And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe according to the working of his mighty power,

Sorry BF but the context does not support your view.

You can post it in larger font but it will not change what the bible says.

You continue to ignore the surrounding verses BF, that is the context you need to read and understand.

But you will continue to repost the same thing over and over in the hope that it will some how become true.

 

[Zaatar71]

I think you may actually be getting it KY. They hear, they believe and then being saved they have eternal life. That is just what we see in the biblical text

Joh 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment but has passed from death to life.
Joh 5:25 "Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

Note the order KY they hear, they believe, then they have eternal life.

And even the dead can hear. That must be shocking for you to see KY.

Notice how silverhair, does not attribute anything to the Spirit of God, but suggests that man alone does this, This is the error of all who oppose the doctrines of grace.

Paul stated the same thing and he made it even clearer.
Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Notice how Arminian types, skip verses 3-12, as if that is not part of the discussion.
LOl it does not start at vs. 13 and work backwards. The sentence is from 3-14.
They seem to have a hatred of election and predestination, unless they can redefine the meanings.

The sealing was the result of believing, and that was the result of hearing the gospel; compare Romans10:14-15 "How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? "

No mention of the Spirit causing anything.

Note the order Paul describes here.
1) The saved are those who call on the name of the Lord.
2) They call because they believe.
3) They believe because they heard.
4) They heard because a preacher shared the Gospel.
Working backwards, Gospel → Hearing → Believing → Confession/Calling → Salvation.

What Paul says here is clear. The Gospel is preached, people hear it, some believe it, call on God and are saved. Sorry if that doesn’t fit into the C/R scenario.

And once again, SH and others bow down to the freewill of man idol. He totally ignores the supernatural work of the Spirit , bringing a spiritually dead sinner to life.

 

[Brightfame52]

Sorry BF but the context does not support your view.

You can post it in larger font but it will not change what the bible says.

You continue to ignore the surrounding verses BF, that is the context you need to read and understand.

But you will continue to repost the same thing over and over in the hope that it will some how become true.

It's part of the context

 

[Brightfame52]

The text does not show or say that KY. That is just something that your C/R view requires.

You have a tendency to don't believe or reject what's in the context

 

[kyredneck]

Notice how silverhair, does not attribute anything to the Spirit of God, but suggests that man alone does this, This is the error of all who oppose the doctrines of grace.

Notice how Arminian types, skip verses 3-12, as if that is not part of the discussion.
LOl it does not start at vs. 13 and work backwards. The sentence is from 3-14.
They seem to have a hatred of election and predestination, unless they can redefine the meanings.

No mention of the Spirit causing anything.

And once again, SH and others bow down to the freewill of man idol. He totally ignores the supernatural work of the Spirit , bringing a spiritually dead sinner to life.

Spot on. @Silverhair's religion is man-centric.

We espouse scripture, Silv can't handle it, then he responds with the same old wearisome claptrap and falsely accuses us of paganism.

The more one reads of @Silverhair's cheap accusations, the more you realize just how shallow he is.

 

[Silverhair]

Notice how silverhair, does not attribute anything to the Spirit of God, but suggests that man alone does this, This is the error of all who oppose the doctrines of grace.

Are you suggesting that the Spirit believes for them. That is not biblical but it is what the C/R's posit as the truth.

Why is it those of the C/R religion have to read things into the word of God so that it fits their false theology?

Notice what the bible actually says
Joh 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
Joh 5:25 "Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

Sure looks like Jesus expected it to be the person that would hear and believe.

Notice how Arminian types, skip verses 3-12, as if that is not part of the discussion.
LOl it does not start at vs. 13 and work backwards. The sentence is from 3-14.
They seem to have a hatred of election and predestination, unless they can redefine the meanings.

I could have posted the whole set of verses if that made you feel better. But I see that even when you look at 3-14 you still get it wrong.

The first step toward a correct understanding of the Biblical doctrine of election is the recognition that the election of men is comprehended only in Christ; outside of Christ there is no election of any man. So unless you were saved and in Christ B4 creation, which you were not, then your view of election is wrong.

I actually love the fact of election and predestination, but I love the biblical understanding of those not the false C/R view.

We are only elect when we are in the "Elect One" Christ Jesus.
Those that God foreknew would believe are predestined to adoption as sons through Christ Jesus.

Were told some of what we receive when we believe
1] In Him we have redemption
2] the forgiveness of our trespasses
3] the riches of His grace
4] made known to us the mystery of His will
5] we have obtained an inheritance
And all these and more are what believes have been predestined to according to His purpose.


But how do we receive these blessing. Paul even shows us that
"In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory." Eph 1:13-14

No mention of the Spirit causing anything.

Is that how you do bible study? You just add words that you think should be there.


I know what the Holy Spirit does but I do not write Him into the text as you seem to do.


I actually go by what the bible actually says not what I want it it say. That's another reason I am not of the C/R religion.

And once again, SH and others bow down to the freewill of man idol. He totally ignores the supernatural work of the Spirit , bringing a spiritually dead sinner to life.

And once again the C/R types accuse others of what they do. You bow down to the pagan teaching of augustin/calvin which is the ultimate man-made idol.


Where you error is that you have man made alive/saved prior to them even hearing and or believing in Jesus.


The fact that the bible does not support your view does not seem to mater as long as you uphold your C/R view.

 

[Silverhair]

Spot on. @Silverhair's religion is man-centric.

We espouse scripture, Silv can't handle it, then he responds with the same old wearisome claptrap and falsely accuses us of paganism.

The more one reads of @Silverhair's cheap accusations, the more you realize just how shallow he is.

I do not have to accuse you of holding to pagan philosophy, history does that just fine.

I just keep pointing it out so that perhaps it will sink in and you will actually disregard that false view and start trusting the word of God.

Only God saves but He only saves those that freely trust in Him. If that is what you consider to be a man centric view then OK guilty as charged. Eph 1:13, Rom 10:9-10, Joh 3:16, 1Jn_5:9-12, Isa_45:22 I could go on but I am sure you get the picture.

What I do note is that you never provide a biblical view that counters what I have posted.

The only response I see from many of the C/R's is the same old wearisome claptrap and cheap accusations,

 

[Brightfame52]

@Silverhair

Only God saves but He only saves those that freely trust in Him.

So He doesnt save anyone that Christ died for, and His Death alone ?