David Lamb
Well-Known Member
Not in English as it is spoken now. "It" is only used for things, and sometimes animals. God is not a thing or an animal.
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Spirit or Ghost?
- Thread starter robycop3
- Start date
KJB1611reader
Active Member
So, it was okay back then? So, no issue. Its fine as its in a 17th century book and we should use 17th centry standards for reading such.
David Lamb
Well-Known Member
I don't know whether it was OK back then. I assume that the translators thought it must be. But that is not how English is spoken now, and we are quite wring to refer to Father, Son or Holy Spirit as "it."
KJB1611reader
Active Member
Should we use secular ideas or Bible words? Why they use a neutral pronoun in the Greek/Hebrew. There is still no issue. We should conform back to pure English. Stop using secular modern defintions.
David Lamb
Well-Known Member
I agree we need to check with the Greek or Hebrew. I am not expert in those languages, but as far as I know, Greek and Hebrew don't use neuter pronouns for God. (Perhaps somebody who knows Greek and Hebrew could tell us). Saying that "it" refers in modern English to things is not using secular modern definitions. That is just what the word in modern English means.
KJB1611reader
Active Member
Why do we call God a 'what?' and 'which.'
KJB1611reader
Active Member
I am.pretty sure it in Genesis is neutral and the one in N.T. Sam Gipp talked about this.
KJB1611reader
Active Member
It is neutral - I don't want to go endless web sesrching.
The KJB is still right.
Well, thanks for the effort, but I'm not going to watch an hour video of Kirk DiVietro on the strength of a "maybe"--probably not even if you are sure of it. I have no respect for The Bible for Today and the Dean Burgon Society ever since they began supporting Riplinger, an unbiblical woman if there ever was one. Waite eventually clashed with Riplinger, and he is now is in Heaven, so that house of cards has collapsed.
I clashed with D. A. Waite years ago when he wanted to support our Japanese Lifeline NT (from the TR), but he was buddy buddy with Riplinger.
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The term "Holy Ghost" is in the KJV 89 times in the New Testament and zero times in the Old Testament. This tells me it is something that is related to Jesus Christ in the flesh that God wants to highlight and have students of the word to meditate on and to search out. There are hints of what he wants us to know via that terminology just in some of the verses he gives us.
He is related to the physical person of Jesus Christ and is distinct from him (as a fleshly person).
Matthew 1:18
Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
Soul and spirit. The human soul associated with the body and the Holy Ghost is God in the flesh.
No man born of a woman had ever had God in his body from his physical birth until Jesus Christ, conceived in the womb of Mary by the Holy Ghost, and born in the image of God, a trinity, body, soul, and Spirit of God. In this way he is equally God and Man in one entity called Jesus, "God with us." The necessity of having himself in the bodies of of men defines reconciliation with God and is a theme of his ministry to Israel, to whom he came and through whom this will be initiated for fallen men. See John 6 in this frame of reference. In Romans 8, much farther down the line of typical teaching and revelation of the mystery of faith Paul would say, now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ he is none of his. Receiving the Spirit of Christ requires he pour IT out and that men receive it by believing the gospel, which is the death, burial, and resurrection of the body of Jesus Christ, him being glorified by the Spirit that raised it from the dead by indwelling it and giving it life. The Holy Ghost is the gift of God because he is the Spirit of Christ. When he, as the gift, is received into the body by faith then those whom he indwells become trinitarian by his presence in their bodies, which is likened to his temple.
Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified)
ohn 16:7
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
One can now understand why he is likened to a Ghost. He is in the body of the saint but exists outside of it as well. Not just any ghost but the Holy Ghost.
The Holy Ghost is a NT doctrine for obvious reasons. He has the characteristics of a ghost in his character.
That is my take and the KJV translators probably did not know any of these truths and so they identified the Holy Ghost in the NT some other way.
Jn 1: 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Past tense verses
33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.
34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
Present tense verses
35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
He has given life to believers in the person of the Holy Ghost, which is the Spirit who dwelt in the body of the Son.
He is related to the physical person of Jesus Christ and is distinct from him (as a fleshly person).
Matthew 1:18
Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
Soul and spirit. The human soul associated with the body and the Holy Ghost is God in the flesh.
No man born of a woman had ever had God in his body from his physical birth until Jesus Christ, conceived in the womb of Mary by the Holy Ghost, and born in the image of God, a trinity, body, soul, and Spirit of God. In this way he is equally God and Man in one entity called Jesus, "God with us." The necessity of having himself in the bodies of of men defines reconciliation with God and is a theme of his ministry to Israel, to whom he came and through whom this will be initiated for fallen men. See John 6 in this frame of reference. In Romans 8, much farther down the line of typical teaching and revelation of the mystery of faith Paul would say, now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ he is none of his. Receiving the Spirit of Christ requires he pour IT out and that men receive it by believing the gospel, which is the death, burial, and resurrection of the body of Jesus Christ, him being glorified by the Spirit that raised it from the dead by indwelling it and giving it life. The Holy Ghost is the gift of God because he is the Spirit of Christ. When he, as the gift, is received into the body by faith then those whom he indwells become trinitarian by his presence in their bodies, which is likened to his temple.
Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified)
ohn 16:7
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
One can now understand why he is likened to a Ghost. He is in the body of the saint but exists outside of it as well. Not just any ghost but the Holy Ghost.
The Holy Ghost is a NT doctrine for obvious reasons. He has the characteristics of a ghost in his character.
That is my take and the KJV translators probably did not know any of these truths and so they identified the Holy Ghost in the NT some other way.
Jn 1: 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Past tense verses
33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.
34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
Present tense verses
35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
He has given life to believers in the person of the Holy Ghost, which is the Spirit who dwelt in the body of the Son.
37818
Well-Known Member
I am missing one at 88?
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I hope your copy is correct and mine is corrupt because given my study of number associations with doctrines over my life time of the study of the KJV, I would have guessed 88 seeing as how the number 8 is associated with new things, new beginnings, being born again. Yep, I hope yours is right.
NO such thing exists though as "pure English"
An English translation should render the Greek and Hebrew into the vernacular and way of speaking as would be current to the time when translated
Gail R and Peter R both examples of those who are trying to act and speak as scholars and experts, but are "clueless"
God moved away from the Greek and Hebrew long ago. Really, what good did being expert in the Hebrew language do the Jews? They crucified their Messiah and he called his own followers fools and slow of heart to believe their own prophets, all they said. These guys were leaving town on the day he rose from the dead because they did not believe he rose from the dead. The Greeks have been shipped wrecked for centuries. That is what the language did for them. They were much too smart to believe such simple words just like the Greek scholars today. Nothing ever really changes.. People who speak English are the believers today.
I think Peter knows the score now, since he passed on to whatever reward he gets.
Your arguments are not from Scripture, but from history...or whatever, I'm not really sure.
This morning in my personal devotions I translated a verse into English from John's Gospel. Later I translated six verses from the Hebrew book of Psalms for the Lifeline Japanese Old Testament. I was very blessed. The Hebrew and Greek Scriptures are still alive and full of blessing, because God gave the Scriptures in them.
God did not give His Bible in English, but in Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic. 2 Timothy 3:16 says, "All Scripture is given by inspiration. That was written in Greek, not English. It is the very rare word theopneustos, "God-breathed," or "the breath of God." So, do you actually believe that God breathed out His word in English, which did not exist in any way, shape or form when the Bible was written?
Peter wrote that "For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." (2 Peter 1:21). You apparently disagree with the Word of God, and would rather say, "For the prophecy came not in 1611 by the will of man...."
We Baptists believe in the Bible as the "sole rule of faith and practice." Do you agree with that? If so, then where is "English" in the Bible?? Do you prefer history as per your argument rather than the Word of God?
Finally, you say, "People who speak English are the believers today." This says to me that you are against the Great Commission. You seem to think no one in the world can or should be saved unless they speak English. Is that your view?
Think he found out that KJVO was not what God had in mindI think Peter knows the score now, since he passed on to whatever reward he gets.
That view insults the Holy Spirit, as His pretention would be to just throw away the inspired texts God did breath out to us in order to keep his beloved English translation