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Calvin denied Lucifer is Satan

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kyredneck

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Isaiah 14:12 is speaking of the Bablyonian king.

....rather:

Isaiah 14:12 is speaking of BEYOND the Bablyonian king.

One of the four beasts of Daniel and seven Dragon heads of Revelation.

Daniel Chapter 7

3​

And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

Revelation Chapter 12

3​

And there was seen another sign in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his heads seven diadems

Ephesians Chapter 6

12​

For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world-rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
....rather:



One of the four beasts of Daniel and seven Dragon heads of Revelation.

Daniel Chapter 7

3​

And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

Revelation Chapter 12

3​

And there was seen another sign in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his heads seven diadems

Ephesians Chapter 6

12​

For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world-rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
This passage is different as Scripture states it is a taunt to that king (Nebuchadnezzar II).

The ANE pagan tradition associated kings with celestial bodies. Here the taunt uses the morning star to show how far God will cause him to fall.

It would be different if Scripture presented this as a prophecy. But it doesn't. I'd be different if Scripture did not identify the subject of the taunt and what was to come being the destruction of that specific enemy for the reasons listed in the passage.

But Scripture tells us who this is directed at, why, and what God was going to do.

To consider it a proper name for Satan is to deny Scripture (to deny who God says this is directed at, why it was directed at this king, and the outcome God would bring about).

Another issue is the fact that for thousands of years after Isaiah was written nobody viewed Lucifer as Satan's name.


The passage is not about Christians struggling with spiritual things. It is an OT passage about God delivering Israel from a pagan king.

Same with God delivering Israel from Egypt.


KJVO cultists use the "Lucifer myth" to call any other translation satanic. Technically this has to mean the original language sources and every translation in any language as "Lucifer" is not a name for Satan there either.


That said, the passage (one aspiring greatness and being brought low) can apply to Satan.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Lucifer is Satan. The occult worship Lucifer.
The occult worship Satan, and some may worship Venus as well. I know Scrientologists have some beluef about aliens around Venus.

Who does the Bible identify as lucifer (helel)?

Hint....not Satan.
 

Layman

Member
I think @KJB1611reader may have gotten into a bit into heresy (either via reading materials or YouTube videos).
It’s the Ruckman/Riplinger brand of KJVOism. The question is, at what point does it become a heretical cult? It alarms me that they teach the book of James is irrelevant today and is only meant to be read by Jews after the rapture. That’s the same nullifying of scripture that Joseph Smith committed.
 
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KJB1611reader

Active Member
It’s the Ruckman/Riplinger brand of KJVOism. The question is, at what point does it become a heretical cult? It alarms me that they teach the book of James is irrelevant today and is only meant to be read by Jews after the rapture. That’s the same nullifying of scripture that Joseph Smith committed.
We teach that James' doctrinal on salvation is for Jews. Not the others.
 

Layman

Member
We teach that James' doctrinal on salvation is for Jews. Not the others.

Huh?

Romans 10:12-13 (ESV) - For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
 
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KJB1611reader

Active Member
Huh?

Romans 10:12-13 (ESV) - For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
In the tribulation.
 

Layman

Member
If watched what Gene taught or Ruckmann.... should know....

It isn't necessary for me to watch those men. Scripture makes it clear that the plan of salvation will always remain the same.

Hebrews 10:14 (ESV) - For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.
 

KJB1611reader

Active Member
It isn't necessary for me to watch those men. Scripture makes it clear that the plan of salvation will always remain the same.

Hebrews 10:14 (ESV) - For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

No, James contradicts Paul. Back to main topic.
 
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