For Whom Did Christ Die?

[Brightfame52]

1Pe 1:13 ¶ Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
1Pe 1:14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
1Pe 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
1Pe 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
1Pe 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
1Pe 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
1Pe 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
1Pe 1:24 ¶ For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
1Pe 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Okay, but none of this says 2 Pet 2:1 states the false teachers were bought with the blood of Christ. Now if you had stated 1 Pet 1:18-19 stated they were bought with the blood of Christ, its plainly stated, who would deny it. This argues on my behalf, it back fired on you lol.

 

[Ben1445]

ἱλάσκομαι hiláskomai, hil-as'-kom-ahee

middle voice from the same as G2436; to conciliate, i.e. (transitively) to atone for (sin), or (intransitively) be propitious:—be merciful, make reconciliation for.

verb

Luke 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

A sinner asking God to reconcile himself to God. "


Hebrews 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Spoken to Hebrews, I would not expect that he depart from the illustration of the Jewish High Priest.





ἱλαστήριον hilastḗrion, hil-as-tay'-ree-on

neuter of a derivative of G2433; an expiatory (place or thing), i.e. (concretely) an atoning victim, or (specially) the lid of the Ark (in the Temple):—mercyseat, propitiation.

neuter noun



Romans 3:25 (KJV) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Hebrews 9:5 (KJV) And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.

The place associated with atonement is given to us in the translation. Atonement happens at the mercy seat.

Atonement is for sin. Atonement is not for people. People sin and because of that need atonement for their sin. They don't need to be atoned for strictly because they are human beings. When God created Adam, Adam did not need atonement yet because he had not done anything that needed to be atoned for. Atonement was promised after sin, because of sin. It was planned for before the world was made because of God's foreknowledge.


ἱλασμός hilasmós, hil-as-mos'

atonement, i.e. (concretely) an expiator:—propitiation.

masculine noun

1 John 2:2 (KJV) And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 4:10 (KJV) Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

 

[Ben1445]

Okay, but none of this says 2 Pet 2:1 states the false teachers were bought with the blood of Christ. Now if you had stated 1 Pet 1:18-19 stated they were bought with the blood of Christ, its plainly stated, who would deny it. This argues on my behalf, it back fired on you lol.

It hasn't backfired. This purchase applies to them also. Show me this other purchase that you think is made.
you claim that false teachers were bought some other way.
What is it??
The burden of proving something is now only on you. What other purchasing of false teachers is made without blood?

 

[Ben1445]

Again you cant understand the simple tenses of scripture, you need not to be quick to speak friend.

Again you fail to comprehend the context. If you could understand the context, you would not be confused about the tenses.

 

[Brightfame52]

1Pe 1:13 ¶ Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
1Pe 1:14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
1Pe 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
1Pe 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
1Pe 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
1Pe 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
1Pe 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
1Pe 1:24 ¶ For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
1Pe 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Also this whole passage of 1 Pet 1 is addressed to and concerning only the elect, its limited atonement, particular redemption of the elect. 1 Pet 1:2

Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

They are called the chosen generation here 1 Pet 2:9

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

 

[Brightfame52]

It hasn't backfired. This purchase applies to them also. Show me this other purchase that you think is made.
you claim that false teachers were bought some other way.
What is it??
The burden of proving something is now only on you. What other purchasing of false teachers is made without blood?

Yeah it did backfire. That passage stated something specific, in 2 Pet 2:1 you added your little two cents, noting specific.

 

[Brightfame52]

Again you fail to comprehend the context. If you could understand the context, you would not be confused about the tenses.

You absolutely without a clue.

 

[Zaatar71]

Definition you need to know
Propitiation The act of appeasing wrath and conciliating the favor of an offended person; the act of one making propitious. {in biblical theology, God} 1Jn_2:2
Propitious Disposed to be gracious or merciful; ready to forgive sins and bestow blessings; applied to God. Webster

Try to remember these ZA as it will clear up a number of you false ideas.

We are saved by the risen Christ not by His death ZA.

1Co 15:17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!

Note what it say about the gospel ZA.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

This is the gospel ZA. You and BF have the same problem, you read vs 3 and ignore vs 4.

1Co 15:3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
1Co 15:4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,

Note what Paul wrote ZA.
Rom 5:10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

And just in case you are not sure who can be saved.

Rom 10:13 For "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved."

Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Now of course you are going to disagree with these but the Holy Spirit knowing that you calvinists would object had Paul write it out even more clearly.

Act 16:30 And he brought them out and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
That's the question ZA.
And here is the answer.
Act 16:31 So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household."

So we see in scripture that Christ was the propitiation for the whole world so all could be saved.

But only those that actually freely trust in the risen Christ will be saved.

Rom 5:10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

You may fuss and fume and say but that is not what my calvinist teachers taught me but that is what the Holy Spirit tells us ZA.

So you have to decide are you going to follow your teachers or God?

Christians have held these teachings from scripture throughout history, It looks as if you just desire to oppose truth, You are free to do that. All men cannot be saved, When Jesus died on the cross millions had already died without a saving knowledge of Him. Your ideas are your own, and not scriptural!

 

[Ben1445]

Yeah it did backfire. That passage stated something specific, in 2 Pet 2:1 you added your little two cents, noting specific.

And your ignorance of Scripture is still unable to answer the question that you have posed.

That scripture says nothing about them being bought with the blood of Christ.

If they are not bought with the blood of Christ, What else is there for them to be bought with and bought from. You deny that it is the blood of Christ and must now make up some other new doctrine.


2 Peter 2:1 (KJV) But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

You deny the blood of Christ bought them. Now what were they bought with, from, for, and to whom is payment made?

 

[Ben1445]

Christians have held these teachings from scripture throughout history, It looks as if you just desire to oppose truth, You are free to do that. All men cannot be saved, When Jesus died on the cross millions had already died without a saving knowledge of Him. Your ideas are your own, and not scriptural!

HE DOES BELIEVE IN FREE WILL!!!

 

[Ben1445]

Yeah it did backfire. That passage stated something specific, in 2 Pet 2:1 you added your little two cents, noting specific.

Add your two cents now, If you have any value to add.

 

[Ben1445]

For Whom Did Christ Die?

It is easy enough to understand when we use the principle of first mention.
When there were only 2 sinners in the world (speaking only of mankind, This is a basic parameter of salvation) God made promise of a Saviour.
Genesis 3:15 (KJV) And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Ro 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Ro 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Ro 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.



The sin came by one man on to all men. Paul says that the free gift comes upon all men the same way sin comes on all men. He is not preaching universalism, nor am I. His statement in verse 17 is clearly understood by those who want to understand it. The gift must be received. if it is refused, (this is free will, which

if you just desire to oppose truth, You are free to do that.

this is clearly a doctrine that even a Calvinist can understand).

He never says righteousness comes on all men. We know it does not.
He said the gift comes on all men.

Since salvation was promised when all were still in Adam, the salvation promised is offered to all in Adam.

 

[Ben1445]

Yeah it did backfire. That passage stated something specific, in 2 Pet 2:1 you added your little two cents, noting specific.

It is backfiring on you. you said false teachers are not bought with the blood of Jesus. what specifically then?

 

[Brightfame52]

And your ignorance of Scripture is still unable to answer the question that you have posed.



If they are not bought with the blood of Christ, What else is there for them to be bought with and bought from. You deny that it is the blood of Christ and must now make up some other new doctrine.


2 Peter 2:1 (KJV) But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

You deny the blood of Christ bought them. Now what were they bought with, from, for, and to whom is payment made?

Again where in Gods Creation do you see in 2 Pet 2:1 anything about the Blood of Christ ?

 

[Brightfame52]

Add your two cents now, If you have any value to add.

No you brought it up, its on you. Im not bailing you out. This should teach you about running and get verses to prove a point, and yet it doesnt prove your point. You presumptuously said 2 Pet 2:1 states false teacher were bought by the blood of Christ, and it doesnt say that.

 

[Ben1445]

Again where in Gods Creation do you see in 2 Pet 2:1 anything about the Blood of Christ ?

Again you have no answer and can do nothing to hide from your statement that they are not bought with blood.

 

[Ben1445]

No you brought it up, its on you. Im not bailing you out. This should teach you about running and get verses to prove a point, and yet it doesnt prove your point. You presumptuously said 2 Pet 2:1 states false teacher were bought by the blood of Christ, and it doesnt say that.

it isn't me that needs to be bailed out. I am not going to come up with some false doctrine for you. you disagree. expound. Tell me what it does mean.

 

[Brightfame52]

Again you have no answer and can do nothing to hide from your statement that they are not bought with blood.

You shouldn't add to scripture

 

[Brightfame52]

it isn't me that needs to be bailed out. I am not going to come up with some false doctrine for you. you disagree. expound. Tell me what it does mean.

No, you made a statement not in the text, you expound it, im not bailing you out. If you cant expound what you say, dont say it. Its noting to disagree about, you made a flat out false comment

 

[Ben1445]

No you brought it up, its on you. Im not bailing you out. This should teach you about running and get verses to prove a point, and yet it doesnt prove your point. You presumptuously said 2 Pet 2:1 states false teacher were bought by the blood of Christ, and it doesnt say that.

Notes on the Old Testament, Explanatory and Practical

By Albert Barnes, originally published 1832-1872.

These considerations seem to me to make it clear that Peter referred here to the Lord Jesus Christ, and that he meant to say that the false teachers mentioned held doctrines which were in fact a denial of that Saviour. He does not specify particularly what constituted such a denial; but it is plain that any doctrine which represented him, his person, or his work, as essentially different from what was the truth, would amount to such a denial. If he was Divine, and that fact was denied, making him wholly a different being; if he actually made an expiatory sacrifice by his death, and that fact was denied, and he was held to be a mere religious teacher, changing essentially the character of the work which he came to perform; if he, in some proper sense, "bought" them with his blood, and that fact was denied in such a way that according to their views it was not strictly proper to speak of him as having bought them at all, which would be the case if he were a mere prophet or religious teacher, then it is clear that such a representation would be in fact a denial of his true nature and work. That some of these views entered into their denial of him is clear, for it was with reference to the fact that he had "bought" them, or redeemed them, that they denied him.



The Pulpit Commentary

Published circa 1890. Edited by H.D.M. Spence, D.D., Joseph S. Exell, M.A.


Even denying the Lord that bought them; literally, as in the Revised Version, denying even the Master that bought them. The word for "Master" (despothv) implies that the deniers stand to the Lord in the relation of slaves, bondservants. The Lord had bought them; they were not their own, but his, bought with a price, "not with corruptible things, as silver and gold, but with the precious blood of Christ" 1Pe 1:18; see also the parallel passage. [Jude 4] These words plainly assert the universality of the Lord's redemption. He "tasted death for every man", [Heb 2:9] even for those false teachers who denied him. The denial referred to may have been doctrinal or practical; most of the ancient forms of heresy involved some grave error as to the Person of Christ; and the germs of these errors appeared very early in the Church,2 denying sometimes the Godhead of our Lord, sometimes the truth of his humanity. But St. Peter may mean the practical denial of Christ evinced in an ungodly and licentious life. The latter form of denial appears most prominent in this chapter; probably the apostle intended to warn his readers against both. It is touching to remember that he had himself denied the Lord, though indeed the price with which our souls were bought had not then been paid; but his denial was at once followed by a deep and true repentance. The Lord's loving look recalled him to himself; his bitter tears proved the sincerity of his contrition.



Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible

1706-1721

Damnable heresies are commonly brought in privily, under the cloak and colour of truth. Those who introduce destructive heresies deny the Lord that bought them. They reject and refuse to hear and learn of the great teacher sent from God, though he is the only Saviour and Redeemer of men, who paid a price sufficient to redeem as many worlds of sinners as there are sinners in the world.



It is a widely accepted understanding, Unless like Gill you come the the Scripture determining what it must mean over what it says. I use Gill often but when Calvinism comes up, he will correct Scripture every time to make it say what it needs to, in order for Calvinism to be established.