Universal Atonement With Limited Atonement

[Paleouss]

Greetings to all from all viewpoints. I am working on comparing the work of Christ on the cross to the sacrificial practices of the Jewish people in the OT. In particular, I am focusing on...

(1a) Christ's Cosmic Triumph as it relates to global redemptive atonement.
(2a) Christ's Reconciling Triumph as it relates to particular (specific) atonement.

... and comparing this to...

(1b) The Day of Atonement (Lev 16:21-22, Heb 9:7), also known as Yom Kippur.
(2b) The Trespass Offering of Atonement (Lev 6:1-7), Sin Offering (Lev 5:1, 5:4).

The overall analysis question is this.... If the High Priest did a once a year sacrifice for 'ALL' the Jews sin. Why then did each individual Jew need to also come and present a sacrifice for their individual sin? In other words, if (1b) was a sacrifice by the High Priest for the sins of all the Jews. Wouldn't this be good enough? Didn't this secure all Jewish people within the body of Israel as clean in the eyes of God?

In comparison to Christ's work on the cross as High Priest (Heb 4:14-15). Are the two Jewish sacrifices (1b & 2b) 'shadows' of what Christ did on the Cross? Was one purpose (1a) for all "the world"? And the other purpose (1b) for individual's sin that came in faith to the alter (also known as elect)?

keep seeking God's truth as if it were hidden treasure.

 

[Brightfame52]

Was the Jewish High Priest Offering for all the world or limited to a chosen People ?

 

[Van]

Interesting insight, Paleouss!

The issue is clear, first an atoning sacrifice must be offered for all, and then, in order to "receive" the reconciliation provided by the sacrifice, the individual sinner must be "sprinkled" or more accurately "washed in the sacrificial blood." For Christianity, when God chooses an individual whose faith He has credited as righteousness and transfers that person spiritually into Christ, they undergo the washing of regeneration, thus "receiving" the reconciliation provided by the sacrifice.

I know a group wants to conflate the two actions into one, but if you study why we are ambassadors with the ministry of reconciliation, and the concept of the lost, years after Christ died, then "receiving" the reconciliation, you too will come to the conclusion that "Biblical Atonement" is a two step process.

 

[Layman]

If the High Priest did a once a year sacrifice for 'ALL' the Jews sin. Why then did each individual Jew need to also come and present a sacrifice for their individual sin?

Hello, Brother @Paleouss. Excellent question.

The role of the High Priest was to offer atonement for the nation’s sins as a whole. The individual sacrifices were necessary for personal transgressions and to demonstrate responsibility and repentance.

Those individual sacrifices are no longer required since our High Priest in Jesus Christ has offered the once and for all sacrifice, intercedes for us at the right hand of the Father, and has imputed His righteousness unto us.

 

[kyredneck]

@Paleouss (good post), @Brightfame52, @Layman

Are people born hell bound due to Adam's transgression? Will there be babies in hell, or do you hold to an age of accountability?

If you hold to an age of accountability can you support it with scripture?

 

[Brightfame52]

Interesting insight, Paleouss!

The issue is clear, first an atoning sacrifice must be offered for all, and then, in order to "receive" the reconciliation provided by the sacrifice, the individual sinner must be "sprinkled" or more accurately "washed in the sacrificial blood." For Christianity, when God chooses an individual whose faith He has credited as righteousness and transfers that person spiritually into Christ, they undergo the washing of regeneration, thus "receiving" the reconciliation provided by the sacrifice.

I know a group wants to conflate the two actions into one, but if you study why we are ambassadors with the ministry of reconciliation, and the concept of the lost, years after Christ died, then "receiving" the reconciliation, you too will come to the conclusion that "Biblical Atonement" is a two step process.

Where all this foolishness come from ?

 

[kyredneck]

Where all this foolishness come from ?

It's Vanology.

 

[Brightfame52]

@kyredneck

Are people born hell bound due to Adam's transgression?

No, the elect which are the vessels of mercy Rom 9 arent, adams transgression was merely the means of God dealing with them in salvation mercy.

They were prepared for mercy and glory from the foundation Rom 9:23

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

 

[Brightfame52]

It's Vanology.

Iknow, he wakes up in the morning and post the first thing smoking.

 

[kyredneck]

No, the elect which are the vessels of mercy Rom 9 arent

Non-elect infants that die (including aborted ones) go to hell?

 

[Van]

Where all this foolishness come from ?

"It's Vanology."

Change of subject name calling is the trademark folks intent on tearing down rather than building up.

Christ provides the means of reconciliation, and God chooses those to receive it based on crediting their faith as righteousness.

 

[Brightfame52]

Non-elect infants that die (including aborted ones) go to hell?

Yes, for their sin in Adam, they will suffer as an adult as Adam was when he sinned and they in him. I dont think they will be suffering as infants.

 

[Brightfame52]

@Van

Christ provides the means of reconciliation,

Thats against Christ. Christ reconciled to God them He died for, by His Death Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Col 1:21-22

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

 

[Layman]

Are people born hell bound due to Adam's transgression? Will there be babies in hell, or do you hold to an age of accountability?

It’s something that most of us struggle to think about, but the Bible is clear: you’re either in Adam or in Christ; there’s no in-between. I believe that God is sovereign and has the same freedom to save infants the same way He does adults.

 

[37818]

Are people born hell bound due to Adam's transgression? Will there be babies in hell, or do you hold to an age of accountability?

Mark 10:14-15, But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

 

[Van]

@Van



Thats against Christ. Christ reconciled to God them He died for, by His Death Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Col 1:21-22

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Sorry but 1 John 2:2 as translated by the NASB says Christ became the means of reconciliation. I have addressed both your points and you have ignored the enlightenment.

Christ provides the means of reconciliation, and God chooses those to receive it based on crediting their faith as righteousness

 

[Brightfame52]

Sorry but 1 John 2:2 as translated by the NASB says Christ became the means of reconciliation. I have addressed both your points and you have ignored the enlightenment.

Christ provides the means of reconciliation, and God chooses those to receive it based on crediting their faith as righteousness

Thats error, it derogates the Death of Christ, it actually reconciled sinners to God

 

[Brightfame52]

It’s something that most of us struggle to think about, but the Bible is clear: you’re either in Adam or in Christ; there’s no in-between. I believe that God is sovereign and has the same freedom to save infants the same way He does adults.

He does, by Grace, Election, if anyone is saved its by Grace.

 

[JesusFan]

It’s something that most of us struggle to think about, but the Bible is clear: you’re either in Adam or in Christ; there’s no in-between. I believe that God is sovereign and has the same freedom to save infants the same way He does adults.

God can elected to save all infants and small children, and aborted babies and menially limited sinners

 

[Van]

Thats error, it derogates the Death of Christ, it actually reconciled sinners to God

Folks, read 1 John 2:2. Did Christ become the means of reconciliation for the whole of humanity?

Folks, read 2 Thessalonians 2:13, does God choose individuals for salvation through faith in the truth?

Pay no attention to posters who simply proclaim this or that but cannot even cite a single verse that actually supports their false doctrines.