Scott Downey
Well-Known Member
It means a certainty of salvation hebrews 9:28
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Faith # 3
- Thread starter Brightfame52
- Start date
37818
Well-Known Member
Hebrews 9:28 is yet future. The salvation of Romans 10:13 is available today.
Scott Downey
Well-Known Member
yes, but as you say, salvation is spoken of both ways in scripture, that was my point.
1 Peter 1:5
who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
1 Peter 1:9
receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.
1 Peter 1:10
Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you,
Hebrews 3, is also clear about our salvation, if we continue and do not apostatize.
. 4 For every house is built by someone, but He who built all things is God. 5 And Moses indeed was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which would be spoken afterward, 6 but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.
He is only indwelling believers, not unbelievers, and GOD built all things including
his house who you are. IF God builds the house, then it will stand.
Those who depart the faith, God did not build their house as His habitation.
The PROOF of that is shown by those who endure to the end in faith.
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37818
Well-Known Member
-Romans 5:5-11, ". . . And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. . . . "
There is the salvation of the now saved (Ephesians 2:8) and the redemption 1 John 3:2, Hebrews 9:28, Romans 8:23 etc.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Faith , Blessings of His Death !
The Blessings of Christ death for those He did die for and in behalf of, will cause them to believe in Him, For believing in Christ is given to them He died for, on His Behalf Phil 1:29. God makes them believe as promised here Zep 3:12
12 I will also leave in the midst of thee an afflicted and poor people, and they shall trust in the name of the Lord.
And Romans 15:12
12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.
Or in Him shall the gentiles seek as in Faith. The word Trust is the same word hope as in Heb 11:1,6
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.44
The Blessings of Christ death for those He did die for and in behalf of, will cause them to believe in Him, For believing in Christ is given to them He died for, on His Behalf Phil 1:29. God makes them believe as promised here Zep 3:12
12 I will also leave in the midst of thee an afflicted and poor people, and they shall trust in the name of the Lord.
And Romans 15:12
12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.
Or in Him shall the gentiles seek as in Faith. The word Trust is the same word hope as in Heb 11:1,6
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.44
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Its by Christ Jesus that some believe in God 1 Pet 1:21
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Faith in God and Christ is a matter of Mercy !
Rom 11:32
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Faith in God and Christ is a matter of Mercy , in other words, in order to become a believer in Christ for Salvation, we must obtain Mercy, or God must have Mercy on us. Paul says 1 Tim 12-13
12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;
13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
Salvation is undeserved, Faith in Christ is undeserved, and God's Mercy finds us in unbelief or disobedience and ignorance !
Paul is saying nothing different than what he wrote here to the Romans Rom 11:30-32
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy[To believe] through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy[To believe].
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
This shows us actually that instead of of faith or believing being conditions one must meet to become saved or to get mercy, instead being in unbelief and disobedience is the condition one must be in to obtain mercy that saves us. That we are saved by Mercy is Taught here Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Many adversaries of the Truth will say that God does not save unbelievers, but in fact what has been just testified to in scripture proves, evidences that He does, for if He did not, there would be no need of His Mercy, and there would never be any believers, for believers are unbelievers saved by God's Mercy ! 3
Rom 11:32
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Faith in God and Christ is a matter of Mercy , in other words, in order to become a believer in Christ for Salvation, we must obtain Mercy, or God must have Mercy on us. Paul says 1 Tim 12-13
12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;
13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
Salvation is undeserved, Faith in Christ is undeserved, and God's Mercy finds us in unbelief or disobedience and ignorance !
Paul is saying nothing different than what he wrote here to the Romans Rom 11:30-32
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy[To believe] through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy[To believe].
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
This shows us actually that instead of of faith or believing being conditions one must meet to become saved or to get mercy, instead being in unbelief and disobedience is the condition one must be in to obtain mercy that saves us. That we are saved by Mercy is Taught here Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Many adversaries of the Truth will say that God does not save unbelievers, but in fact what has been just testified to in scripture proves, evidences that He does, for if He did not, there would be no need of His Mercy, and there would never be any believers, for believers are unbelievers saved by God's Mercy ! 3
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Eph 2:8
Eph 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Religionists, no matter what, believe that Salvation is of themselves. However, that Faith is not of man that believeth, but by the Grace and Power of God, can not be more plainer than here written in Rom 11:18-20
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
The standing by Faith is not anything we do, so it excludes boasting, as something man does as a condition to get saved ! Faith is part of the grafting in procedure that God does. Yes Vs 18 above excludes boasting for faith as well as Eph 2:9
The only way one can stand by faith is by God's Ability, not by the flesh. The word stand in Vs 20 is the greek word histēmi:
to cause or make to stand, to place, put, set
So they were caused or made to stand by Faith !
The same word is used here Rom 14:4
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
God is able and does enable according to His Purpose, those He so desires to stand by Faith as in Rom 11:20
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
That should humble us, but it doesn't, because religionists erroneously believe the faith they stand by is of themselves, which makes them boasters !
Eph 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Religionists, no matter what, believe that Salvation is of themselves. However, that Faith is not of man that believeth, but by the Grace and Power of God, can not be more plainer than here written in Rom 11:18-20
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
The standing by Faith is not anything we do, so it excludes boasting, as something man does as a condition to get saved ! Faith is part of the grafting in procedure that God does. Yes Vs 18 above excludes boasting for faith as well as Eph 2:9
The only way one can stand by faith is by God's Ability, not by the flesh. The word stand in Vs 20 is the greek word histēmi:
to cause or make to stand, to place, put, set
So they were caused or made to stand by Faith !
The same word is used here Rom 14:4
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
God is able and does enable according to His Purpose, those He so desires to stand by Faith as in Rom 11:20
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
That should humble us, but it doesn't, because religionists erroneously believe the faith they stand by is of themselves, which makes them boasters !
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Jn 17:19-20 He[Jesus] Prays for Faith !
Jn 17:19-20
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
Even though many do not realize it here, but Jesus is praying that all for whom He died, which is the meaning of sanctifying Himself here, He prays is praying for them to receive the Gift of Faith, and this petition of Christ is the primary reason all for whom He died shall be Sanctified by the Spirit of Truth unto the Belief of the Truth 2 Thess 2:13
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Folks it is impossible for anyone that Christ died for, whom He sanctified Himself for Jn 17:19-20, for them not to by the Work of the Spirit, believe the Truth of the word of Truth, if so, then His petition here in Jn 17:19-20 as well as His Death were of no avail. However His Death does ensure that all for whom He died has true Light communicated unto them Jn 1:9
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man[Whom He died for] that cometh into the world.
The word lighteth here is the greek word phōtizō and means:
) to give light, to shine
2) to enlighten, light up, illumine
3) to bring to light, render evident
a) to cause something to exist and thus come to light and become clear to all
4) to enlighten, spiritually, imbue with saving knowledge
a) to instruct, to inform, teach
b) to give understanding to
This is also what Paul means here 2 Cor 4:6
For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
Thats the True Light of Jn 1:9 that gives the Knowledge of Christ through the Gospel, a Saving Knowledge which Faith is an component of !
Jn 17:19-20
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
Even though many do not realize it here, but Jesus is praying that all for whom He died, which is the meaning of sanctifying Himself here, He prays is praying for them to receive the Gift of Faith, and this petition of Christ is the primary reason all for whom He died shall be Sanctified by the Spirit of Truth unto the Belief of the Truth 2 Thess 2:13
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Folks it is impossible for anyone that Christ died for, whom He sanctified Himself for Jn 17:19-20, for them not to by the Work of the Spirit, believe the Truth of the word of Truth, if so, then His petition here in Jn 17:19-20 as well as His Death were of no avail. However His Death does ensure that all for whom He died has true Light communicated unto them Jn 1:9
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man[Whom He died for] that cometh into the world.
The word lighteth here is the greek word phōtizō and means:
) to give light, to shine
2) to enlighten, light up, illumine
3) to bring to light, render evident
a) to cause something to exist and thus come to light and become clear to all
4) to enlighten, spiritually, imbue with saving knowledge
a) to instruct, to inform, teach
b) to give understanding to
This is also what Paul means here 2 Cor 4:6
For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
Thats the True Light of Jn 1:9 that gives the Knowledge of Christ through the Gospel, a Saving Knowledge which Faith is an component of !
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Jn 17:19-20 He Prays for Faith ! 2
A quick recap, the Lord Jesus Christ in Jn 17:19-20 in His Petition statement that by His sanctifying Himself [by death] that they whom He is dying for may as a result be Sanctified through the Truth See Vs 17 too ! In this statement Jesus is petitioning their Faith and belief of the Truth. There basically is no difference in their being Sanctified through the Truth or being Sanctified by Faith Acts 26:18
18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
Yes, this here is the effect of what Jesus requested in Jn 17:19-20 !
Its the Spirit that accomplishes this work on behalf of Christ's death and its accomplishment, for He is sent into the world Christ died for by the Father and through Christ, and to them He is a Spirit of Truth that the world at large cannot receive Jn 14:17
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
That being the world that Christ did not pray for Jn 17:9 and so did not die for ! But for that World he died for and prayed for He is sent as the Spirit of Truth Jn 16:13
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you [The Church, His Body] into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
He to them brings the Spirit of Faith 2 Cor 4:13
We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;
Notice here, the Spirit of Faith precedes believing what is written. The Gospel is composed of things that had been written as in scripture See 1 Cor 15:3-4 !
So that's why a Sanctification of the Spirit is necessary and given to the Elect, those Christ died for, unto the Belief or Faith in the Truth 2 Thess 2:13-14
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
If one is not experimentally Set apart by the Spirit, producing in them the fruit of Faith Gal 5:22, they will never in a savingly way believe the Gospel Truth ! But all whom Christ sanctified Himself in behalf shall believe it ! Jn 18:37
37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
Jn 10:16
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. 3
A quick recap, the Lord Jesus Christ in Jn 17:19-20 in His Petition statement that by His sanctifying Himself [by death] that they whom He is dying for may as a result be Sanctified through the Truth See Vs 17 too ! In this statement Jesus is petitioning their Faith and belief of the Truth. There basically is no difference in their being Sanctified through the Truth or being Sanctified by Faith Acts 26:18
18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
Yes, this here is the effect of what Jesus requested in Jn 17:19-20 !
Its the Spirit that accomplishes this work on behalf of Christ's death and its accomplishment, for He is sent into the world Christ died for by the Father and through Christ, and to them He is a Spirit of Truth that the world at large cannot receive Jn 14:17
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
That being the world that Christ did not pray for Jn 17:9 and so did not die for ! But for that World he died for and prayed for He is sent as the Spirit of Truth Jn 16:13
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you [The Church, His Body] into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
He to them brings the Spirit of Faith 2 Cor 4:13
We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;
Notice here, the Spirit of Faith precedes believing what is written. The Gospel is composed of things that had been written as in scripture See 1 Cor 15:3-4 !
So that's why a Sanctification of the Spirit is necessary and given to the Elect, those Christ died for, unto the Belief or Faith in the Truth 2 Thess 2:13-14
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
If one is not experimentally Set apart by the Spirit, producing in them the fruit of Faith Gal 5:22, they will never in a savingly way believe the Gospel Truth ! But all whom Christ sanctified Himself in behalf shall believe it ! Jn 18:37
37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
Jn 10:16
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. 3
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Chosen to Believe the Truth !
All those who have been Chosen to Salvation from the beginning, they have also been Chosen to Faith or Belief of the Truth 2 Thess 2:13
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Therefore all them Whom God Chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4 shall be given Faith to believe the Truth, no ifs buts, or maybes about it, its sure ! This is an indictment against any and all who teach that no one is Chosen to Believe the Truth in Fact thats why its called the Faith of God's Elect Titus 1:1, for Faith and Election go hand and hand !
All those who have been Chosen to Salvation from the beginning, they have also been Chosen to Faith or Belief of the Truth 2 Thess 2:13
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Therefore all them Whom God Chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4 shall be given Faith to believe the Truth, no ifs buts, or maybes about it, its sure ! This is an indictment against any and all who teach that no one is Chosen to Believe the Truth in Fact thats why its called the Faith of God's Elect Titus 1:1, for Faith and Election go hand and hand !
How can we call upon one whom we have not believed Roman’s 10:14
Looks like our heart is changed before we call out to God right?
8 the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.` Jn 3 YLT
No 'hearing' involved in it. John the Baptist filled with the Spirit from his mother's womb, David made to hope while on his mother's breast, Isaac born after the Spirit by the time of his weaning, Paul separated from his mother's womb to preach Christ among the Gentiles, preachers don't convey the Spirit of God, He goes where He wants.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
You ignored the question partner
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Correct, its future tense, shall be saved. and also its passive voice, its not the act of believing that saves them, someone else shall save them, they are being acted upon.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
How can you call upon someone to save you when you dead ? Can a person whose drowned call upon a life guard to save them ?
Being born-again and salvation cannot be separated. You cannot have one without the other. If you have one you have the other.
That is God's plan. Praise God!
That is God's plan. Praise God!
37818
Well-Known Member
From Post#2
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Thats correct because as the power of God its causing the believing. We believe by the power of God
When we are made alive in Christ ie regenerated we then can believe