the English language itself poses a problem for interpreters.
We have two general type. Work for works like KJV, NKJV NASB
And a general "thought for thought" translation like the NIV and the NLT.
Just like with the KJVO argument, you have people that argue against one or the other of these types of translation.
The flaw of the English language is it is weak. The Greek has far more tenses and language tools which makes it a more precise language, which is missing in the english language.
also. the english language has one word which can be used to translate many greek words all with different meaning (ie, Love in english translates Agape, Phileo or Philadelphia, Sarx and Eros in the greek)
so in order to keep a word for word bible. it is next to impossible to find the deeper meaning of some passages. and even harder to properly portray a passage to convey the whole meaning
a good example is eph 2: 8, for By Grace we "have been" saved.
in English, it conveys that something occurred in the past. There is no way to determine in the text if this salvation is still in effect. or if this salvation is complete or perfect. meaning it is a completed action.
In the greek Saved is in the perfecty tense, meaning it is a completed action.
so how do we properly interpret it as it is written?
We would need an expanded translation which flows away from a word for word translation. and tends to resemble more of a "general thought" translation which would not be welcomed by many.
(for those of us who have been a part of a church with general ICE principles and pastor teachers from Dallas Theological seminary. we may be full versed into what I am talking about.
As for words. Jesus restorative conversation with Peter (peter do you love me) I remember the first time I was in a study where the greek was consulted. That conversation between peter and Jesus became alot more powerful, (the fact Peter could not say He agape" loved Jesus. yet Jesus still told him to feed his sheep. shows how graceful God is..
Then we have the "transliterated words" Like baptize" which is not even a translation, (not sure why any interpreter would think of doing this, but it has caused division in the church since)
Let me just say that your logic here is very flawed. This can be illustrated by the example you chose to illustrate your point. You chose Ephesian 2 here:
so in order to keep a word for word bible. it is next to impossible to find the deeper meaning of some passages. and even harder to properly portray a passage to convey the whole meaning
a good example is eph 2: 8, for By Grace we "have been" saved.
in English, it conveys that something occurred in the past. There is no way to determine in the text if this salvation is still in effect. or if this salvation is complete or perfect. meaning it is a completed action.
In the greek Saved is in the perfecty tense, meaning it is a completed action.
What you actually illustrate is that you have completely missed the point of the letter and it's theme. The letter is the revelation of a "mystery." This mystery has been personally taught to one apostle Paul by Jesus Christ himself in the person of the Spirit. No doubt this took place in the beginning of Paul's Christian sojourn during his time in Arabia and he is charged to reveal it and explain it. The theme is the mystery that has been hidden in God and it is named in the epistle as "the mystery of Christ." It is defined in a single nutshell verse and it gives the PURPOSE for this age that some of us refers to as "the church age, but God in his book of Matthew chapter 13 refers to as "the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven."
Here is the defining verse;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers (with the Jews to whom the promise was given) of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
The Jews were promised salvation in Christ, the Jews savior, but not the gentiles. This was not a mystery. It is in Acts 10 that God invited gentiles to be saved along with the Jews. He is not keeping any promises to gentiles by this action but it is because he is good and kind and gracious and he pities us.
So, these facts instructs me that you are way off in presenting Eph 2:8 as you have done in your comments when you quoted God in this manner;
for By Grace we "have been" saved.
It is not "we" and it is not past tense. It is "ye" as in gentiles as included in the body with the Jews, who were first in the body, and it is "are" as in present tense, meaning "this present age."
Read what he said in the previous 7 verses and see how Paul uses ye/you with we/us along with "together" in the body of Christ.
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation
in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 ¶ But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) (He did not say "we are saved by grace" because the Jews were at that time still a nation and had the promise of the Abrahamic covenant. God was keeping a promise to them)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made
us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That
in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For
by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: - Grace equal Gift.
You presentation of Ephesians 2 frustrates the great doctrine of the church by not recognizing the three entities that are in the body of Christ, Jews, gentiles, and the Spirit of Christ, and how, when, and why they got there. Some of these translations changes the teaching of the truth. We must walk circumspectly and be watchful.
