No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

[Brightfame52]

Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

No man can come here means no man has the ability to come to Christ. That cancels out the myth that man has a freewill,

It also means that no man has the ability to believe on Christ for Salvation. Because Christ equates believing on Him with coming to Him. Jn 6:64-65

64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.


What about those Jesus says to them Jn 5:40

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Thats answered in Jn 6:44 they simply will not come because they cannot come unless the Power of God draws them and makes them willing

Ps 110:3

3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

If and when one comes to believe on Christ willingly, the credit goes to Gods Power !

 

[Brightfame52]

No man can come to Christ by his own freewill ability because by nature hes dead in trespasses and sins and without spiritual life and ability to do or act. So consequently he cant come and believe on Christ of himself, or of his own freewill.

 

[Silverhair]

That is a rather strange bit of logic there BF. When the bible holds man responsible for the choices he makes then logically he has the free will with which to make choices.

But according to you man cannot do that so the question is how is a Holy God just if He condemns man for not doing something he has no ability to do?

 

[JonC]

Wait....are we saying people come to Christ against their will?

 

[Brightfame52]

That is a rather strange bit of logic there BF. When the bible holds man responsible for the choices he makes then logically he has the free will with which to make choices.

But according to you man cannot do that so the question is how is a Holy God just if He condemns man for not doing something he has no ability to do?

Man is a slave to sin and still responsible or his sinning.

 

[Van]

Yet another obscene thread, pushing utter nonsense!


What does it mean "no person can come to Christ?" Does the OP poster know? Of course not. On and On, folks, false claim on top of misrepresentation.


1) No person can seek God or put their trust in Christ because of "Total Spiritual Inability." That claim is utter nonsense.


2) No person can cause his or her transfer into Christ? That claim is true.


3) No person can seek God or put their trust in Christ unless God allows. That claim is true. If God chooses to harden a person's heart, they cannot believe.


4) John 5:40 says those who chose not to come to Jesus were "unwilling" not "unable." Again and again, one false claim after another.

5) Psalm 110:3 is none germane, other that it indicates people will willingly serve in David's army, thus serving the Lord's anointed!

 

[Dave G]

Wait....are we saying people come to Christ against their will?

" And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father." ( John 6:65 )

 

[Silverhair]

Man is a slave to sin and still responsible or his sinning.

Man is a slave to sin but that does not preclude him being able to hear, understand and respond to the gospel message. That is just the C/R view that was brought into the church in the 4th century.

And yes man is responsible for his sinning and will be judged for it.

But your philosophy says man has no free will so how can he choose to sin. All the actions must have been determined by God so you have made God responsible for the sin man commits. You do have a strange religion there BF.

 

[Silverhair]

" And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father." ( John 6:65 )

Joh_6:65 tells us that not all will be allowed/permitted to come to God. Joh_6:64 tells why. They did not believe but the question is what did they not believe? We need to look back to Joh_6:53-63 for the answer.

 

[Brightfame52]

According to Jesus words here can a man by his own freewill ability come to Christ ? Jn 6:65

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. 2

 

[Brightfame52]

Man is a slave to sin but that does not preclude him being able to hear, understand and respond to the gospel message. That is just the C/R view that was brought into the church in the 4th century.

And yes man is responsible for his sinning and will be judged for it.

But your philosophy says man has no free will so how can he choose to sin. All the actions must have been determined by God so you have made God responsible for the sin man commits. You do have a strange religion there BF.

Man is a slave to sin and has no freewill ability to come to Christ and believe in Him. Thats what this thread is about.

 

[Silverhair]

Man is a slave to sin and has no freewill ability to come to Christ and believe in Him. Thats what this thread is about.

Yes I know BF and that is what I commented on. Your C/R view is that man has no ability to come to Christ as he has no free will. The bible disagree with your view.

Do you not agree that God is sovereign? Is there anything that is logically possible and that fits His character He cannot do?

We see in scripture that man can and many times does choose to reject God, a free will exercise, but we also see that man can choose to trust in Christ, again free will. You make an unsupported comment and do you then expect not to be challenged on it?

God has given every person a free will because it is His will that each individual exercise the right to believe in Christ or reject Christ. If God wanted robots, He would have created robots. But He didn’t want robots. He wants a family that loves Him. Apart from freedom of the will, love is impossible.

The bible is clear that only God can save and He has chosen to save those that freely have trusted in Him.

 

[Silverhair]

According to Jesus words here can a man by his own freewill ability come to Christ ? Jn 6:65

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. 2

It seems that the only way those of the C/R view can support their view is to ignore context.

All you need to do is look back to Joh_6:53-64 for the answer.

Note His words in Joh 6:64 "Yet there are some of you who do not believe" which shows that some did believe.

So we see that those that had believed were those that were given to Christ.

 

[Brightfame52]

Yes I know BF and that is what I commented on. Your C/R view is that man has no ability to come to Christ as he has no free will. The bible disagree with your view.

Do you not agree that God is sovereign? Is there anything that is logically possible and that fits His character He cannot do?

We see in scripture that man can and many times does choose to reject God, a free will exercise, but we also see that man can choose to trust in Christ, again free will. You make an unsupported comment and do you then expect not to be challenged on it?

God has given every person a free will because it is His will that each individual exercise the right to believe in Christ or reject Christ. If God wanted robots, He would have created robots. But He didn’t want robots. He wants a family that loves Him. Apart from freedom of the will, love is impossible.

The bible is clear that only God can save and He has chosen to save those that freely have trusted in Him.

Okay so that's how it is, man in the beginning wasn't a slave to sin, but once he sinned in adam he died to whatever life and fellowship he had with God, and so he remains dead to God and a slave to sin, and still accountable to God for sinning.Mans only hope for restoration is Gods Sovereign elective purposes to be saved by grace.

 

[Brightfame52]

It seems that the only way those of the C/R view can support their view is to ignore context.

All you need to do is look back to Joh_6:53-64 for the answer.

Note His words in Joh 6:64 "Yet there are some of you who do not believe" which shows that some did believe.

So we see that those that had believed were those that were given to Christ.

You ignoring context, this is in the context:

According to Jesus words here can a man by his own freewill ability come to Christ ? Jn 6:65

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father

 

[Silverhair]

Okay so that's how it is, man in the beginning wasn't a slave to sin, but once he sinned in adam he died to whatever life and fellowship he had with God, and so he remains dead to God and a slave to sin, and still accountable to God for sinning.Mans only hope for restoration is Gods Sovereign elective purposes to be saved by grace.

Yes man is saved by the grace of God through faith. When he hears and responds to the gospel message in faith then God saves him.

You seem to think that being separated from God by your sin means that you cannot hear and believe but as you know the bible shows that they can. So the only reason that I can see for you denying what the bible says is that it would prove your philosophy wrong. So you continue to deny the clear word of God.

 

[Silverhair]

You ignoring context, this is in the context:

According to Jesus words here can a man by his own freewill ability come to Christ ? Jn 6:65

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father

It is obvious that you do not know what the word context means BF as you continue to ignore it.

You continue to cherry pick verses that you think support your view. For someone that claimed to preach you do not seem to understand God's word very well.

 

[Brightfame52]

Yes man is saved by the grace of God through faith. When he hears and responds to the gospel message in faith then God saves him.

You seem to think that being separated from God by your sin means that you cannot hear and believe but as you know the bible shows that they can. So the only reason that I can see for you denying what the bible says is that it would prove your philosophy wrong. So you continue to deny the clear word of God.

Man cant respond spiritually, for he is dead and a slave to sin, to disobedience. Man by nature are children of disobedience/unbelief Eph 2:2-3

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

The word disobedience is the greek word apeitheia:

1. obstinacy, obstinate opposition to the divine will

So man naturally man doesnt have Faith, just unbelief, he cant freewill himself out of his nature


ἀπείθεια apeítheia, ap-i'-thi-ah; from G545; disbelief (obstinate and rebellious):—disobedience, unbelief.

The word is translated unbelief here Heb 4:6,11

6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

 

[Brightfame52]

It is obvious that you do not know what the word context means BF as you continue to ignore it.

You continue to cherry pick verses that you think support your view. For someone that claimed to preach you do not seem to understand God's word very well.

Here is what is within the context:

You ignoring context, this is in the context:

According to Jesus words here can a man by his own freewill ability come to Christ ? Jn 6:65

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father

 

[Silverhair]

Man cant respond spiritually, for he is dead and a slave to sin, to disobedience. Man by nature are children of disobedience/unbelief Eph 2:2-3

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

The word disobedience is the greek word apeitheia:

1. obstinacy, obstinate opposition to the divine will

So man naturally man doesnt have Faith, just unbelief, he cant freewill himself out of his nature


ἀπείθεια apeítheia, ap-i'-thi-ah; from G545; disbelief (obstinate and rebellious):—disobedience, unbelief.

The word is translated unbelief here Heb 4:6,11

6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

So you just ignore the verses you do not like.

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

Rom 10:13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."
Rom 10:14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?

Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Man can and is expected to make real choices. Those that trust in Christ will be saved. Those that reject Him will be lost.

What you have posted does not disprove the reality of a free will ability to respond to the gospel message.