The Absolute Sovereignty of God

[Eternally Grateful]

He has not given His creatures any libertarian free will at all. They never had it, never will.

tell that to Adam and Eve. and every other person who ever lived

So when that tree fell in Tennessee and killed three people in a car, do you think that was pure chance, or what some people would call just plain "bad luck"?

lol

Man is responsible. To quote from the OP: "Further, where a man commits a sin (be that Shimei, Pharaoh, Judas Iscariot, the unbelieving Jews, you, or I) he does not do that against his own will. He doesn't do something that he does not want to do, or that he is forced into doing. Pharaoh wanted to keep the Israelites as slaves. Judas wanted that silver. With our sins, we also want something that we think is desirable. The key point in all this is that when God exercises His sovereignty in respect to man and his deeds, He does not interfere between the will of man and the act of man. If God would interject Himself between the will and the act of man, man would indeed be a stock and a block."



Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Isaiah 45:9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?

So God holds some people up and saved them against their will

while holding others down not giving them even an opportunity to be saved, thus forcing them to be lost.

how anyone can not see how bad this makes God look to all creation. is just amazing

 

[KenH]

This proves I am not sovereign

Any false theology that says that God did not choose His elect before the world began, that says that Christ did not meet 100% of the conditions for the salvation God's elect, that says that the Holy Spirit does not regenerate God's elect and grants them the gifts of faith in the finished work of Christ and repentance of dead works, is claiming that man is in some way, to some degree, sovereign over his salvation.

And there is no salvation in a false gospel that claims that man is in some way, to some degree, sovereign over his salvation.

 

[KenH]

The point is God gave man free will

No, God did not give man or any of His creation libertarian free will.

 

[KenH]

logically then God can not hold that man accountable..

False. The apostle Paul sternly refuted your position long ago:

Romans 3:5-8 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say?
Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,)
Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.

 

[Silverhair]

@Silverhair



Im sorry you have this sentiment of the True God. Adam and Eve sinned freely with their own wills, nobody forced them to sin. Yet they only did what God had predetermined they should do. See before they were even created, God had already foreordained Christ to die for sin and redeem His chosen people 1 Peter 1:18-20

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

If Christ ws foreordained before the foundation by God, then surely Adam and Eve were foreordained after the creation to do that which made it necessary for Christ to have been foreordained before the foundation to do ! The word foreordained means also to to predestinate:

G4267 - proginōskō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)

G4267 - προγινώσκω proginṓskō, prog-in-oce'-ko; from and ; to know beforehand, i.e. foresee:—foreknow (ordain), know (before).

www.blueletterbible.org

Your comment is illogical BF and the sad part is that you and Ken both do not see that.

It is impossible for you to have a predetermined free will choice.

 

[Silverhair]

Any false theology that says that God did not choose His elect before the world began, that says that Christ did not meet 100% of the conditions for the salvation God's elect, that says that the Holy Spirit does not regenerate God's elect and grants them the gifts of faith in the finished work of Christ and repentance of dead works, is claiming that man is in some way, to some degree, sovereign over his salvation.

And there is no salvation in a false gospel that claims that man is in some way, to some degree, sovereign over his salvation.

Your whole post proves that you do not know the word of God.

You have sold out to a man-made religion that finds it's foundation in pagan philosophy.

Trust the word of God not your false religion.

 

[KenH]

tell that to Adam and Eve. and every other person who ever lived

I'll tell it anyone.

So God holds some people up and saved them against their will

No. He makes them willing.

Psalm 110:3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power,
In the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning:
Thou hast the dew of thy youth.

while holding others down not giving them even an opportunity to be saved

Romans 9:14-16 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

how anyone can not see how bad this makes God look to all creation.

To those to whom God has given spiritual ears to hear, and to whom God has given spiritual eyes to see, the doctrine of the absolute sovereignty of God is a joyous doctrine.

Personally, I am thankful to God that He is in control of everything, and that I am not living in a world of random chance happenings.

 

[KenH]

Trust the word of God

I do. My whole salvation is committed to Christ Jesus.

2 Timothy 1:12 I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

 

[Silverhair]

I'll tell it anyone.



No. He makes them willing.

Psalm 110:3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power,
In the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning:
Thou hast the dew of thy youth.



Romans 9:14-16 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.



To those to whom God has given spiritual ears to hear, and to whom God has given spiritual eyes to see, the doctrine of the absolute sovereignty of God is a joyous doctrine.

Personally, I am thankful to God that He is in control of everything, and that I am not living in a world of random chance happenings.

I will admit that I do get enjoyment from reading the joke posts that you and BF write.

You cannot be serious when you post such anti-biblical comments.

It is either that or you have both been deluded by fine sounding words of false teachers.

 

[Silverhair]

I do. My whole salvation is committed to Christ Jesus.

2 Timothy 1:12 I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

Then why do you deny that He is sovereign?

 

[KenH]

Then why do you deny that He is sovereign?

Maybe we are reading different threads. I am reading the thread where I proclaim the Biblical truth of the absolute sovereignty of God, and where you proclaim that God is not absolutely sovereign and in which you write a whole lot like a Deist would write.

 

[KenH]

You cannot be serious when you post such anti-biblical comments.

Silverhair, I am serious.

It is either that or you have both been deluded by fine sounding words of false teachers.

I believe God's Word.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Any false theology that says that God did not choose His elect before the world began, that says that Christ did not meet 100% of the conditions for the salvation God's elect, that says that the Holy Spirit does not regenerate God's elect and grants them the gifts of faith in the finished work of Christ and repentance of dead works, is claiming that man is in some way, to some degree, sovereign over his salvation.

Up until the point where you state God made a person alive while still under the penalty of sin, I agree 100 % with you.

And there is no salvation in a false gospel that claims that man is in some way, to some degree, sovereign over his salvation.

Now one said man was

But God gave man the responsibility to chose. or to deny.

Just like in the desert. those who lo0oked in faith to the type of Christ lived. those who did not died.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No, God did not give man or any of His creation libertarian free will.

Actually yes he did.

If he did not. Every man has an excuse. and a righteous judge would set them free.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

False. The apostle Paul sternly refuted your position long ago:

Romans 3:5-8 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say?
Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,)
Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.

Nice try

God takes vengeance on those who freely chose to rebel.

Now if he forced them against their own will to rebel.. well then God has no right to take vengence.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I'll tell it anyone.

and 90% of the people will look at you like you have no idea what your talking about

No. He makes them willing.

Psalm 110:3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power,
In the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning:
Thou hast the dew of thy youth.

Thats willing to do Good. Thats what he does TO HIS PEOPLE..

Romans 9:14-16 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

the fatalistic view of romans 9 is off base..

Romans 9 answers the question did God make a mistake choosing Israel. Not about his sovereignty.. in fact. romans 9 - 11 are one subject (remember, there were no chapter verse form in the original text)

To those to whom God has given spiritual ears to hear, and to whom God has given spiritual eyes to see, the doctrine of the absolute sovereignty of God is a joyous doctrine.

Personally, I am thankful to God that He is in control of everything, and that I am not living in a world of random chance happenings.

Yeah

You take joy in an unloving, evil dictator of A God.

Satan will stand next to you. and have joy with you

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I do. My whole salvation is committed to Christ Jesus.

2 Timothy 1:12 I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

yet you claim God forced you to believe (by your words) against your will.

Not sure if you have committed love, or you are forced to do whatever he says..

 

[KenH]

Up until the point where you state God made a person alive while still under the penalty of sin

Christ Jesus paid the penalty for God's elect. They are not under the penalty of sin. Christ paid the their sin debt - virtually before the world began, and literally at the cross.

Revelation 13:8 The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Hebrews 10:10-14 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: but this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; from henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

But God gave man the responsibility to chose. or to deny.

God gave His elect to His Son before the world began to be their Surety and to meet ALL of the conditions for their salvation.

 

[KenH]

Actually yes he did.

No, He didn't.

If he did not. Every man has an excuse. and a righteous judge would set them free.

The apostle Paul sternly refuted your position long ago:

Romans 3:5-8 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say?
Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,)
Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.

 

[KenH]

yet you claim God forced you to believe (by your words) against your will.

I claim no such thing.

Psalm 110:3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power,
In the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning:
Thou hast the dew of thy youth.