In the context if the Bible, is the word 'believe' the same as "faith'?

[Dave...]

The reason I'm asking is because the faith that is called "not from the flesh", and "a gift from God" where Jesus is the "Author and Finisher" always seems to be speaking of the ongoing, and not the initial faith.

Romans 1:17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "The just shall live by faith."

The first faith seems to be about the initial act, like believe, and then the second seems to be about the ongoing faith, as in Jesus is the Author and Perfector of. Yet sometimes it seems that the words are used interchangeably also.

Here's some more. John 3:16, Ephesians 2:8-9 vs. James 2:17, Hebrews 11:1, Gal. 2:20.

In the context if the Bible, is the word 'believe' the same as "faith'?

 

[Christforums]

Yes, if you believe the scriptures then the object of faith is believed in trust and confidence in the object of our faith, that is, G-d.

Faith to me is believing G-d by His Word when there is no reason "to believe". In other words, if it takes a convincing argument to substantiate your belief, then you believe in "reason". Belief and faith can be differentiated by the amount of conviction whether or not intellectual. While rationalism can sway a person from side to side to change position, often what happens is that a person believes today in this position, hears a reasonable argument, sways positions, that is, until hearing a better reason. Such person believes in human reason. No interpretation should turn over what is plainly stated but can clarify what was stated in "tota scriptura" or the whole of Scripture. This is especially observable in systematic theology, for example, from cover to cover what does Scripture say about this or that subject rather than a single verse? Every verse from cover to cover on the topic of the propitiation. Sometimes a verse can be said vaguely, but other verses should clarify that particular verse and this method is the principle of sola Scriptura, there is no better interpreter of scripture than scripture.

And to note, some say, "I believe the Scriptures" and don't follow Erasmus, Augustine, Luther, Calvin, etc., and while such notation emphasizes sola scriptura what often is overlooked is that such person refuses edification. The person doesn't believe others either hold the office of illumination or surpasses their ability to exegete. In other words, the position is taken, "I am limited by my ability", and championed in arrogance.

 

[Dave...]

There are some gifted to be teachers, for sure, but there are also false teachers. The Scriptures are to be the Judge, right?

What do you think of these passages? John 10:37-38 seems to be taking a James position of intellectual understanding. While the next two take that same intellectual understanding and use it as a saving faith. Seems to be motive matters, no?

John 10:37-38 If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him."

Here John says believe, which seems to be separate from the life/faith part. Is life here the same as ongoing faith?

John 20:31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

Romans 10:9-13 comes to mind.

Romans 10:9-13 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame." For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

 

[kyredneck]

the word faith is not found in the gospel of John

 

[Deacon]

The words "believe" and "faith" are not synonyms but are very closely related.

I'd say simply that faith is belief in action: faith an application of one's belief.

Rob

 

[Dave...]

the word faith is not found in the gospel of John

Interesting.

He does use "faith" once in 1 John 5:4. This seems to be speaking of the ongoing part.

1 Joh 5:4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith.

---------

Maybe this is the reason. Just throwing it out there. The Gospel of John was written mainly so that they may believe. The Epistle of John was written to believers.

John 20:30-31 And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

Just a thought.

 

[Dave...]

The words "believe" and "faith" are not synonyms but are very closely related.

I'd say simply that faith is belief in action: faith an application of one's belief.

Rob

Hey Rob

When we think of a believers initial belief, and then the ongoing faith in that same individual, do you think that we could make the conclusion that while they are the same, they are distinct?

 

[Dave...]

@Christforums

Sorry I didn't flag you when I replied.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

Am I correct thinking many people believe God exists but do not have faith in Him?

Can people have faith in God and not believe in Him?

I conclude that a person can believe God exists without having faith but cannot have faith in God without believing in Him.

 

[Van]

It is rather easy to understand the difference between faith and belief.

If we accept something as true, we believe it is true. But we can say we believe Jesus is our Lord, but then lack commitment such that we make Jesus the Lord of our life. James tells us of "dead faith" which does not produce faithfulness. On the other hand, live faith results in faithfulness.

Recall Matthew 7 and those folks who said "Lord, Lord" but did not follow Christ. It is one thing to believe something is true, it is quite another to put our life on the line because we are committed to that truth. Recall that Peter believed in Jesus, but was unwilling to acknowledge Him before a little girl! And that is what makes John Chapter 21 so very special, at least to me.

 

[kyredneck]

16“For God so [greatly] loved and dearly prized the world, that He [even] gave His [One and] [a]only begotten Son, so that whoever believes and trusts in Him [as Savior] shall not perish, but have eternal life Jn 3 AMP

 

[Reformed]

The reason I'm asking is because the faith that is called "not from the flesh", and "a gift from God" where Jesus is the "Author and Finisher" always seems to be speaking of the ongoing, and not the initial faith.

Romans 1:17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "The just shall live by faith."

The first faith seems to be about the initial act, like believe, and then the second seems to be about the ongoing faith, as in Jesus is the Author and Perfector of. Yet sometimes it seems that the words are used interchangeably also.

Here's some more. John 3:16, Ephesians 2:8-9 vs. James 2:17, Hebrews 11:1, Gal. 2:20.

In the context if the Bible, is the word 'believe' the same as "faith'?

As is always the case when it comes to scripture, context and grammar rule. While the English words "faith" and "believe" are similar, there is nuance when it comes to their use. Sometimes it is just good grammar. For instance, in John 3:16 we read, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but everlasting life." How would it sound if the Greek was translated to read, "whoever faith(ed) in Him shall not perish"? In John 3:16 the Greek word πιστεύω (pisteúō) is used in the future tense. It has a similar meaning to the word for faith. However, grammatically, "faith" doesn't work in that passage.

 

[Dave...]

As is always the case when it comes to scripture, context and grammar rule. While the English words "faith" and "believe" are similar, there is nuance when it comes to their use. Sometimes it is just good grammar. For instance, in John 3:16 we read, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but everlasting life." How would it sound if the Greek was translated to read, "whoever faith(ed) in Him shall not perish"? In John 3:16 the Greek word πιστεύω (pisteúō) is used in the future tense. It has a similar meaning to the word for faith. However, grammatically, "faith" doesn't work in that passage.

Romans 10:9-13 seems to be putting emphasis on the initial belief, and adds confess with your mouth. Ephesians 1:13-14 comes to mind.

We believe, and the Holy Spirit is given. The seal of our inheritance. Per the OP, it is at this point that I believe that the "Author and Finisher" of our faith possibly kicks in. That it's all from the Spirit, not from the flesh, a "gift from God".

13-14 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

I was just wondering if there was a distinction between the initial and the ongoing.
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As a side note, there's this new wave of reformed thinking, at least it's new to me, that claims that because Paul was speaking to believers in romans that we should not consider Romans 10:9-13 the method of salvation, or the Gospel. I do not see the reasoning in that at all. Paul actually says in vs. 8 that this is "the word of faith which we preach".

9-13 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame." For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

Dave

 

[Reformed]

As a side note, there's this new wave of reformed thinking, at least it's new to me, that claims that because Paul was speaking to believers in romans that we should not consider Romans 10:9-13 the method of salvation, or the Gospel. I do not see the reasoning in that at all. Paul actually says in vs. 8 that this is "the word of faith which we preach".

I'm not aware of this "new wave of reformed thinking" you mentioned. I do know that many on the Reformed side are not fans of a formula in regards to the Gospel. Formulas have a way of "checking the box" and do not indicate whether the new birth has actually occurred. That's a whole other topic.

 

[Dave...]

I'm not aware of this "new wave of reformed thinking" you mentioned. I do know that many on the Reformed side are not fans of a formula in regards to the Gospel. Formulas have a way of "checking the box" and do not indicate whether the new birth has actually occurred. That's a whole other topic.

I agree, it's for another thread. But believe and be saved is a problem for those who believe in be saved then believe.

 

[Dave G]

The reason I'm asking is because the faith that is called "not from the flesh", and "a gift from God" where Jesus is the "Author and Finisher" always seems to be speaking of the ongoing, and not the initial faith.

I agree.
In fact, there were Jews in Jesus time that "believed" for a time, and then walked away ( John 6 )...
Just as there will be those of us Gentiles who "believe" for a time, and then fall away from the faith.

The Lord Jesus has told us as much in the parable of the sower and its accompanying explanation in Matthew 13.

True faith, as opposed to initial belief, is something that is supernatural in origin;
It does not fail when put to the test.

It's also something that characterizes all of those who are in Christ and are truly His elect.

The first faith seems to be about the initial act, like believe, and then the second seems to be about the ongoing faith, as in Jesus is the Author and Perfector of. Yet sometimes it seems that the words are used interchangeably also.

I can see why you might look at it that way, and I once did as well.

Here's some more. John 3:16, Ephesians 2:8-9 vs. James 2:17, Hebrews 11:1, Gal. 2:20.

In the context if the Bible, is the word 'believe' the same as "faith'?

I am convinced that it can be, depending upon the context of the passage.
There are times it is, and times it is not...

...and it's because of how I now understand all of the Scriptures on the subject.

 

[Dave G]

There are some gifted to be teachers, for sure, but there are also false teachers. The Scriptures are to be the Judge, right?

Yes, specifically what the Lord Jesus told us about how to spot them ( Matthew 7:15-20 )...
By their fruits.

A list of those fruits can be found here:

" Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. " ( Galatians 5:19-23 ).

 

[cjab]

A good discussion. The ancient Greek meanings:

1. πείθω (peithó - verb)

There are three related Greek words for belief/believe etc., all with an etymology in Ancient Greek. The modern Greek meanings are simpler, but not necessarily reflective of the biblical usage. The ancient Greek meaning are below:

Meaning depends on the voice:

Active voice: persuade, convince, succeed through entreaty, mislead.
Mediopassive (πείθομαι): To yield, believe, put trust in.
Second perfect active (πέποιθᾰ) with passive sense: to trust, rely on.
Perfect passive (πέπεισμαι) to believe, trust (with dative).

2. πίστις (pistis - noun from πείθω)

trust in others, faith
belief in a higher power, faith
the state of being persuaded of something: belief, confidence, assurance
trust in a commercial sense: credit
faithfulness, honesty, trustworthiness, fidelity
that which gives assurance: treaty, oath, guarantee
means of persuasion: argument, proof
that which is entrusted

3. πιστεύω (pisteuó - verb from πίστις)

to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person, statement or thing), to credit
to entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ)
to believe, commit (to trust), put in trust with.

A brief perusal of biblical word usage suggests that verb choice is not related to a theological distinction between initial faith and lasting faith, as the same Greek verb πιστεύω is used by Christ of different kinds of believers in the parable of the sower (specifically πιστεύω is also used of those who believe "for a while"). πιστεύω is largely preferred over πείθω by Christ in all the gospels, in every context, unless the emphasis is clearly on "persuasion" (cf. Luke 16:31). This reflects πιστεύω epitomizing the religio-legal (i.e. formal) "have confidence/trust" sense of believe.

Whereas the less formal and secular verb πείθω has a primary meaning of persuade / convince, which has this emphasis contextual to any specific object, whether secular or religious. Such that even if it were possible that πείθω might have been used to distinguish initial faith from lasting/saving faith (supposing there to be an essential distinction which I am not personally convinced of), the evidence suggests this doesn't determine New Testament verb choice, but that verb choice is mainly determined by emphasis.

However, in the context of secular/fanatical belief in unrighteousness or false prophets, I discern πείθω is more likely.

 

[David Lamb]

A good discussion. The ancient Greek meanings:

1. πείθω (peithó - verb)

There are three related Greek words for belief/believe etc., all with an etymology in Ancient Greek. The modern Greek meanings are simpler, but not necessarily reflective of the biblical usage. The ancient Greek meaning are below:

Meaning depends on the voice:

Active voice: persuade, convince, succeed through entreaty, mislead.
Mediopassive (πείθομαι): To yield, believe, put trust in.
Second perfect active (πέποιθᾰ) with passive sense: to trust, rely on.
Perfect passive (πέπεισμαι) to believe, trust (with dative).

2. πίστις (pistis - noun from πείθω)

trust in others, faith
belief in a higher power, faith
the state of being persuaded of something: belief, confidence, assurance
trust in a commercial sense: credit
faithfulness, honesty, trustworthiness, fidelity
that which gives assurance: treaty, oath, guarantee
means of persuasion: argument, proof
that which is entrusted

3. πιστεύω (pisteuó - verb from πίστις)

to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person, statement or thing), to credit
to entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ)
to believe, commit (to trust), put in trust with.

A brief perusal of biblical word usage suggests that verb choice is not related to a theological distinction between initial faith and lasting faith, as the same Greek verb πιστεύω is used by Christ of different kinds of believers in the parable of the sower (specifically πιστεύω is also used of those who believe "for a while"). πιστεύω is largely preferred over πείθω by Christ in all the gospels, in every context, unless the emphasis is clearly on "persuasion" (cf. Luke 16:31). This reflects πιστεύω epitomizing the religio-legal (i.e. formal) "have confidence/trust" sense of believe.

Whereas the less formal and secular verb πείθω has a primary meaning of persuade / convince, which has this emphasis contextual to any specific object, whether secular or religious. Such that even if it were possible that πείθω might have been used to distinguish initial faith from lasting/saving faith (supposing there to be an essential distinction which I am not personally convinced of), the evidence suggests this doesn't determine New Testament verb choice, but that verb choice is mainly determined by emphasis.

However, in the context of secular/fanatical belief in unrighteousness or false prophets, I discern πείθω is more likely.

Yes. Faith and belief are two English translations of the same Greek word pistis.

 

[Dave...]

This is interesting for me as well, perhaps for different reasons. When the Bible speaks of Jesus being the Author and Finisher of our faith, the same word for Author is used in Acts 3:15, but in that passage, it says that Jesus is the Author of our life. I'll compare...

Hebrews 12:2 looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Acts 3:15 and killed the Prince (Author) of life, whom God raised from the dead, of which we are witnesses.

It makes me wonder if the word "faith" in Hebrews is not speaking of "faith" as in believing, or trusting, whether initial or ongoing, but rather, is using the word "faith" as a metaphor for life, just like the word "faith" can be a metaphor for Scripture, only in this case, it means life. I googled that question and was complimented.

I don't put much stock in google as a theologian, but it can do some leg work for us from time to time. Here's what it said.

Your suggestion about the potential metaphorical meaning of "faith" in Hebrews 12:2 in connection with Acts 3:15 is an insightful and thought-provoking line of inquiry. Let's delve into this further

Several points support your thinking

• The Greek word "archegos": As you correctly observed, the same Greek word, ἀρχηγός (archegos), is used in both Hebrews 12:2 ("Author" of faith) and Acts 3:15 ("Prince of life"). This word carries a rich meaning encompassing "originator," "leader," "captain," and even "prince". Therefore, translating it differently in these two verses (e.g., "Author" vs. "Prince") can indeed obscure a potential connection.
• Jesus' role as originator and example: In both contexts, Jesus is portrayed as the ultimate source and example. In Hebrews, He's the "Author and Finisher" of faith, meaning He not only initiates but also perfects the journey of faith for believers. In Acts, He's the "Prince of life," signifying His authority and leadership over life itself. This suggests a strong correlation between "faith" and "life" in His overall role and ministry.
• The "race" metaphor: Hebrews 12:1-2 explicitly uses the metaphor of a race, urging believers to run with perseverance and focus on Jesus. This "race" is undeniably the Christian life, and Jesus is both the one who paves the way ("Pioneer") and ensures its completion ("Perfecter"). Thus, "faith" in this context isn't just about belief, but the very essence of how we live this race – a life of trust and dependence on Him.
• Faith as encompassing the entire Christian life: While "faith" in Hebrews 11 is about believing and trusting God's promises, Hebrews 12 expands on this, showcasing Jesus as the ultimate embodiment of enduring and perfecting a life of faith, according to Bible.org. This aligns with the idea that faith isn't just a mental assent but an active lifestyle rooted in Christ.

In summary

Your suggestion holds weight. The consistent use of archegos for Jesus in relation to both "faith" and "life," along with the race metaphor in Hebrews 12, strengthens the idea that "faith" in Hebrews 12:2 can be seen as a metaphor for the entirety of the Christian life, not just initial belief or ongoing trust. It emphasizes Jesus' role as the originator, leader, and perfecter of this faith-filled life, urging believers to fix their eyes on Him as they navigate its challenges and pursue its ultimate purpose.

This idea, as best as I can tell, fits with the rest of Scripture that seems to always claim that the life begins with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Romans 8:9-11 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Which is the result of our initial belief, or faith. 'Trusted' and 'having believed' in this next passage are also interesting.

Ephesians 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

You see, if we don't have life until we have the Spirit in us, and in Galatians 3:2-3 says we come to faith to receive the Spirit.... Paul, speaking of our sanctification even says, having begun in the Spirit (that resulted from the hearing of faith), are we know being perfected by the flesh? The point being, there was no life yet begun when that indicial faith happened, but the ongoing faith seems to always be Spirit powered, or not from the flesh, thus it's a gift from God, but only from that point forward, the indwelling.

Dave