In the context if the Bible, is the word 'believe' the same as "faith'?

[Alan Dale Gross]

Yes the initial faith is born of God

Amen. "Born." "From Above."

Bright, you'd need to prove it with Scripture.

I see Paul telling the churches that they believe because they are saved...
They are not saved because they believe.

Yep, apparently that is what you believe, but Paul never did and still doesn't in Heaven now.

One thing for sure, though, it's not from the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Don't know where you come off thinking your statements are always the Mind of God.

prove from Scripture that the life begins before we receive the Holy Spirit.

Nobody said anything like that.

Read carefully...until proven other wise, dead people can believe.

Your denial of the Bible teaching of Total Depravity and saying, "dead people can believe"|, is the clearest evidence of man being Totally Depraved that I have ever witnessed.

"Man must see himself as unlike God and in rebellion against God. He must see the opposition between his condition and the holiness of God. He must see that God abhors his condition and state. The recognition of sin that enters into repentance unto salvation is concerned primarily, not with the fact that sin brings punishment, but with the fact that sin offends God. There is, of course, a fear of the eternal consequences of sin; but this is not the primary thing."

THE UNIVERSALITY OF SIN IN THE HUMAN FAMILY

All men, with the sole exception of the God-man, Christ Jesus our Lord, are sinful by nature and express that inward sinfulness in willful transgressions... This fact is proved by;

1. The Universal Need of Repentance, Faith, and Regeneration.

Luke 13:3; John 8:24; Acts 16:30,31; Heb. 11:6; John 3:3,18.

2. Plain Scripture Declarations.

1 Kings 8:46; Psa. 143:2; Prov. 20:9; Eccl. 7:20; Rom. 3:10, 23; Gal. 3:22.

TOTAL DEPRAVITY CONSIDERED:

"Total depravity means that sin has permeated every faculty of man's being just as a drop of poison would permeate every molecule of a glass of water. Sin has warped every faculty in man, and thus it taints his every act.

(1) Proof of Total Depravity.

A. Man is Depraved in Mind. Gen. 6:5.

B. In Heart. Jer. 17:9.

C. In Affections so that He is Averse to God. John 3: 19; Rom. 8:7.

D. In Conscience. Titus 1:15; Heb. 10:22.

E. In Speech. Psa. 58:3; Jer. 8:6; Rom. 3:13.

F. Depraved from Head to Foot. Isa. 1:5,6.

G. Depraved when Born. Psa. 51:5; Psa. 58:3.

(2) The Effect of Total Depravity.

A. No Remnant of Good Remains in Man by Nature. Rom. 7: I &

B. Therefore, Man by Nature Cannot Subject Himself to the Law of God or Please God. Rom. 8:7,8.

C. Man is by Nature Spiritually Dead. Rom. 5:12; Col. 2:16; 1 John 3:14.

D. Therefore, He Cannot Comprehend Spiritual Things. 1 Cor. 2:14.

E. Hence, He Cannot Until Quickened by the Spirit of God, Turn From Sin to God in Godly Penitence and Faith. Jer. 13:23; John 6:44,65; 12:39,40.

The basis of depravity and spiritual inability lies in the heart. It is deceitful and incurably wicked (Jer. 17:9). Out of the heart are the issues of life (Prov. 4:23). No one can bring a clean thing out of an unclean one (Job 14:4).

"Hence, neither holiness nor faith can proceed from the natural heart. Good things proceed from a good heart and evil things proceed from an evil heart (Matt. 7:17,18; Luke 6:45)."

THE DOCTRINE OF SIN

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

Have Spirit, have life. It's simple right?

faith also gives us the Spirit, thus that faith gives us the life.

No way on earth or in Heaven.

When we receive the Holy Spirit indwelling as a result of (initial) faith

FAITH HAS NO MERIT IN ITSELF.

Faith is merely the channel through which God's justifying and sanctifying grace flows into the soul. Faith is no more meritorious than the act of receiving a gift is meritorious. Faith in no way is a substitute for our obedience to the law, nor does it bring about a lowering of the law so that we can meet its demands.

Faith is a work.

"Faith is referred to as being a work in the Scripture, in John 6:29; "Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him Whom He hath Sent"... As a gift of God and as the mere taking of undeserved mercy, it is expressly excluded from the category of works on the basis of which man may claim salvation:

Salvation is by works.

The Work of God.

For you to try to say that your work of having faith gives you saving belief is directly, 100%, in contrast with plain Scripture there and the words of Jesus speaking, Himself.

"This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him."

Rom. 3:28; "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law."

4:4, 5, 16; "Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt."

"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all."

"Faith is not the act of the full soul bestowing, but the act of the empty soul receiving.

"Although this reception is prompted by a Drawing of the heart toward God, Inwrought by the Holy Spirit, this Drawing of the heart is not yet a conscious and developed love: such love is the result of faith, shown in Gal. 5:6; "For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love." (A. H. Strong Systematic Theology, pp. 469,470)."

SIMMONS- REPENTANCE AND FAITH

So, as the Bible says, you had the love of God in your lost soul, and the Divine Spiritual love worked out the faith you claim you had to quicken your lost soul to Eternal Life?

The 'philosophy' you are asking about is the Bible teaching and "doctrine of total depravity and is a very humbling one. It is not that man leans to one side and needs propping up, nor that he is merely ignorant and requires instructing, nor that he is run down and calls for a tonic; but rather that he is undone, lost, spiritually dead. Consequently, he is "without strength," thoroughly incapable of bettering himself; he is exposed to the wrath of God, and unable to perform a single work which can find acceptance with Him.

"Almost every page of the Bible bears witness to this truth. The whole scheme of redemption takes it for granted. The plan of salvation taught in the Scriptures could have no place on any other supposition.

"The impossibility of any man's gaining the approbation of God by works of his own appears plainly in the case of the rich young ruler who came to Christ. Judged by human standards, he was a model of virtue and religious attainments. Yet, like all others who trust in self-efforts, he was ignorant of the spirituality and strictness of God's law; when Christ put him to the test, his fair expectations were blown away, and "he went away sorrowful" (Matt. 19:22)."

from: The Total Depravity of Man by A. W. Pink

The 'philosophy' you are professing is nowhere in the Bible: "As a matter of justice, according to Arminius, God has bestowed upon all men the special influence of the Holy Spirit (often called "gracious ability") from the beginning of consciousness, with which man has the power to cooperate and thus obey the will of God. It is only when a human being consciously refuses to cooperate with the special influence of the Holy Spirit that he becomes guilty before God. Original Arminianism was greatly modified by John Wesley. But Wesleyanism, on the whole, is just as flagrantly false as original Arminianism.

"The same that was said of Pelagianism can be said of Arminianism. It needs no further refutation than that which is given in the truth of the Bible as set forth in the former portion of this chapter. In some respects, it is simply extra-scriptural; in others it is anti-scriptural; while in others, it is logically unsound."

THE DOCTRINE OF SIN

While I recognize your right to understand it the way that you do, I don't see it saying that.
Rather, I read it the other way around, especially given what the Lord has said about His people being chosen in Christ before the world began ( Ephesians 1 ) and them believing because they were ordained to eternal life ( Acts 13:48 ) and it was given to them to do so ( Philippians 1:29 ).

 

[Van]

Yes, thats why when the Gospel reveals, makes known that impute righteousness of Christ to Faith, its believed. So the righteousness was ours before we believed it. You however make faith your righteousness and not the object of Faith Christ. Your good quality of faith is your righteousness along with you act of believing.

Lol, boy this sounds like a ball of confusion.

LOL, this is a ball of confusion. Scripture says God credited Abraham's faith as righteousness, but this poster claims it really means God credited Christ's righteousness to "Faith" with a capital, signifying some sort of divine origin. These posts make up stuff as if from an automated assembly line.

Bottom line, Romans 4 teaches God credits the faith of some of those who put their trust in aspects of the gospel. This is the truth these posters are trying to hide.

 

[Brightfame52]

@Van

Scripture says God credited Abraham's faith as righteousness,

It is a work of righteousness, because it was an evidence that he was already righteous. So you believe a person gets saved by a work of righteousness. Thats a work based salvation. Titus reads Titus 3:5

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

 

[Van]

It is a work of righteousness, because it was an evidence that he was already righteous. So you believe a person gets saved by a work of righteousness. Thats a work based salvation. Titus reads Titus 3:5

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Here this poster defies God's word, claiming faith is a work of righteousness, rather than a worthless human endeavor unless credited as righteousness by God, turning a sows ear into a silk purse.

It is rather easy to understand the difference between faith and belief.

If we accept something as true, we believe it is true. But we can say we believe Jesus is our Lord, but then lack commitment such that we make Jesus the Lord of our life. James tells us of "dead faith" which does not produce faithfulness. On the other hand, live faith results in faithfulness.

Recall Matthew 7 and those folks who said "Lord, Lord" but did not follow Christ. It is one thing to believe something is true, it is quite another to put our life on the line because we are committed to that truth. Recall that Peter believed in Jesus, but was unwilling to acknowledge Him before a little girl! And that is what makes John Chapter 21 so very special, at least to me.

 

[Brightfame52]

@Van

Here this poster defies God's word, claiming faith is a work of righteousness,

It is, as is believing in Christ with the heart. When a person is regenerated/saved, they believe which is a action. They believe by the Gift of Faith

Any action by us is a work. Now believing Faith from a regenerated person is a work of righteousness Acts 10:35

But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

 

[Salty]

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[Salty]

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