In the context if the Bible, is the word 'believe' the same as "faith'?

[Alan Dale Gross]

This is definitely a point of contention. Herein is where one of the points of contention. When does that life begin?

When does Eternal Life begin?

The hypothesis of learned Theologians, who have considered when Eternal Life begins in the soul is logically illustrated by answering how a light bulb is turned on in a room using a light switch.

When we turn on a light switch, it sure seems like the light instantly comes on at the same time.

But, chronologically, we know that the wall switch has to be turned on first.

So, we're seeing the speed of electricity going from the switch to the light bulb is QUICK.

Again however, from the standpoint of logic, the switch must be turned on, before the light comes on.

The lightbulb in the ceiling is not going to just 'TURN ON' by itself, right, without a source of electricity for it to be fired up and make light?

Thus, all the controversies about How, What, and When the Experience of Salvation takes place should be able to be resolved by that illustration, for the sake of honesty.

Mankind has something within them, which indicates and signals to them for the most part their actions as sometimes being right and acceptable in society and sometimes they feel quite wrong.

That is their conscience doing that and making them feel alright about their actions, or wrong.

Who put that there? God. The same one Who Laid the Foundation of Reason and makes it Constant, i.e., "1+1=2", yesterday, today, and tomorrow, too. "1+2 NEVER EQUALS 46".

Therefore, we have God at times definitely letting us know in our conscience He Put in our mind that we know that He knows that we know He KNOWS WE'VE DONE SOMETHING OFFENSIVE TO HIM. The Law, as a schoolmaster, can drive some people to Jesus, when they are preached the Gosple as being Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection. And yet, not all of Mankind comes to Jesus Who is the Only Way of salvation.

Both hearers have sensed when hearing about God's Law, and even without it, that they are guilty before this Unseen Being, but even when given the solution to their problem in Jesus' Work of salvation He Perfectly Accomplished, some remain lost.

How, What, and When is the difference made between the two?

You remember that conscience which both have when they are lost, that may make both of them feel guilty in their soul, but they find that their will, their efforts, and seeming desire for deliverance from Hell and to have a Home in Heaven only produce a, "I hope I'm saved" religion that provides them no assurance whether they are saved or not, and in fact, they have never had a salvation experience during their life. They are both lost in their sins. What makes the defence?

While humans presently operate in what I will call, "The Realm of Facts", that we can discern with our five senses, there is a Higher Realm of the Spirit. "The Spirit Realm" exists and is actually more real than what we in "The Realm of Facts" that we can see, hear, touch, smell, or taste.

God is Spirit.

Any thought of the sin-cursed reasoning of man, using a mind that suffered the effects of the Fall of Adam, which tries to say and assume man is "made in God's Image," has anything to do with them possessing any Absolute Divine Attributes in The Spirit Realm, with which they can use to transcend The Realm of the Facts into the Spirit Realm the Holy Perfect God is Spirit Lives in, to talk to Him, face to Face, heart to Heart, didn't get that from God's Revelation in the Bible.

Nor, has there ever been in the History of Mankind, a lost soul having "a Spark of Divinity".

The only place a lost soul can Receive The New Birth, by which they Enter in and can now discern the Reality in the Spirit Realm is by the Almighty Divine Power of the Holy Spirit, when He Regenerates their soul.

When you understand, or at least accept as a model theory to consider, that the Activity of the New Birth is Initiated by God, then since this REGENERATION takes place in the lost soul BELOW THE LEVEL OF CONSCIOUSNESS, WE BEGIN TO SEE HOW IT IS THAT A LOST SOUL IS CHANGED AND NOW HAS A CAPABILTY TO PERSONALLY WILL TO REPENT AND COME TO JESUS.

The Spiritual Change is not made to make the lost soul 'will', 'or try to', or decide' to repent and believe, but once the soul has been Born Again and becomes a Partaker of the Divine Nature, then that Born Again soul has the Spiritual Ability Given to them BY GRACE, to will and decide to Repent and have Faith in Jesus' Blood to save their soul. There has been a notable recognition of them being a hopeless light bulb', by that other illustration, and they will acknowledge it was God Who Flicked the Switch.

The 'light bulb' will have the capability of seeing and being aware of their utter and absolute need and the New Found discernment and appreciation for The Switch Who they know Changed their soul, to now hate sin and love and worship and follow their Savior.

I think the Bible is clear that it begins with the indwelling

Provided that what you are saying agrees with what is above and our God Above.

I think the Bible is clear that it begins with the indwelling, because that's what makes us one with Jesus, born again [the life] and justified.
Provided that what you are saying agrees with what is above and our God Above.

But that's a problem for the TULIP system.

TULIP IS AN ETERNALLY SECURE AND TRUE BIBLE TEACHING WITH ELEMENTS IN ALMOST EVERY CHAPTER SPELLED OUT, WHILE EVERYWHERE ELSE, TULIP IS IN PERFECT HARMONY WITH THE DOCTRINES OF GRACE AND THE ONE ETERNAL COVENANT OF SALVATION BY THE TRIUNE GODHEAD, THROUGHOUT THE BIBLE, IN ITS ENTIRITY.

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

there is a distinction to be made, and it lays with the context of each, and plays right into this topic. Paul, is usually in the context of justification, which speaks of our initial faith, or trusting believing, while James, is speaking of the evidences of one living by the Spirit, the ongoing faith, the life.

Exactly on point. That is exactly the distinction being made by these two Bible writers.

there is a distinction to be made: Paul speaks of our initial faith, or trusting believing,

!!!!

while James, is speaking of the evidences of one living by the Spirit, the ongoing faith, the life.

!!!!!

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

the indwelling, as Scripture clearly shows us

Dare I ask what you guys mean by "the indwelling"?

Where does that come from?

 

[Van]

Van, whose righteousness is being credited?

Dave

More nonsense, more change of subject questions, more deflection and obfuscation. This is all they have. They deny God credits the faith of believers as righteousness.

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

But the new birth is what gives us the life, right?

Ephesians 2:1; "And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins";

I notice here in this verse that there is an absence of 'life' expressed, when it says those who are saved were previously those "who were dead in trespasses and sins."

2:8,9; "For by grace are ye saved through faith;
and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"

And, I'd have to wonder if you are O.K. with salvation being "not of yourselves"
and what this says:

2:9; "Not of works, lest any man should boast."

Because, as you are going through all this:

You can't have life without the new birth

you can't have the new birth, without also having the life

Do you agree?

You're not mentioning what it is that you think that 'life' is that you are referring to

So, I have to opt out on answering that (even though you weren't talking to me to start with...)

If yes, then I would suggest that we believe so that we can have the Holy Spirit placed into us.

That is a remarkably crazy, gratuitous assertion fallacy, IF I HAVE EVER SEEN ONE.

Then, do you see 'believe' in any of your quotes up to here in this post?

That was enough of a leap from playing around with the word 'life' and now you changed it to something to do with saying 'believing'? has something to do with causing The New Birth.

Do you believe you birthed yourself?

If, how did you do that?

Especially when God says it was He that "quickened" the dead soul to life.

That would make something that was dead to be the birthing cause of its own birth effect.

Which also places us into Christ and His death and resurrection, born again

Where did you come up with the phrase "places us into"?

Where did that come from?

That's the life.

What is "the life'? Is it were you were trying to say were you birthed yourself by your Eternal Life
quickening ability to birth yourself from the dead?

Sounds like your attempting to rob Jesus Christ of His Glory that He Accomplished by His Perfect Life being Sacrificed in His death, burial, and resurrection, where He is Able to give ETERNAL LIFE, TO AS MANY AS God has given Him.

Now, you can boast that you don't need Him and you've taken care of your sin, yourself?

Ant, yet, NOT before God.

The Gospel is believe and be saved.

No, it absolutely is not "believe and be saved" that the Bible teaches is what "the Gospel" is.

Believe and have life.

Every person and every Angel that has ever been Created "believes".

Even the fool has only "said in his heart" that there is no God. He didn't say he "believes" it.

We are made alive in Christ.

Nice try, but you have said that being Spiritually "made alive" is the result of your own 'physical belief, with your own physical belief being the cause of you being Spiritually "made alive".

So, you can't use a bunch of small blurps with errors in them already to build something that not just a plain old bigger error.