NFL... The Calvinist View

[rockytopva]

Calvinist NFL Preview: Each Team Shall Win The Games They Were Predestined To Win

U.S. — In anticipation of what promised to be a highly competitive pro football season, Calvinist sports analysts at The Babylon Bee predicted that each NFL team would win the games they were predestined to win by the Creator.

babylonbee.com

 

[Charlie24]

Calvinist NFL Preview: Each Team Shall Win The Games They Were Predestined To Win

U.S. — In anticipation of what promised to be a highly competitive pro football season, Calvinist sports analysts at The Babylon Bee predicted that each NFL team would win the games they were predestined to win by the Creator.

babylonbee.com

This is becoming of Calvinism, God picking His special and favorite.

 

[Salty]

I dont want to RUSH into this discussion - so I will just PASS!

 

[KenH]

Actually, NFL teams do win the number of games that God has foreordained. Otherwise, one has to believe, falsely, that there are events outside of God's sovereign will and that man has some amount of sovereignty over the events of this world, even football games.

 

[Charlie24]

Actually, NFL teams do win the number of games that God has foreordained. Otherwise, one has to believe, falsely, that there are events outside of God's sovereign will and that man has some amount of sovereignty over the events of this world, even football games.

Ken, don't tell me the tennis match I won this morning was all God's doing and had nothing to do with the hard practice leading up to that match.

That's disheartening to hear.

It seems I didn't need to practice and ready myself, it was already under my belt?

 

[KenH]

It seems I didn't need to practice and ready myself, it was already under my belt?

God uses means to accomplish what He has ordained to happen.

Glad to hear that you play tennis. I played tennis when I was a young man, stopped when I was about 28 years old.

 

[JonC]

Actually, NFL teams do win the number of games that God has foreordained. Otherwise, one has to believe, falsely, that there are events outside of God's sovereign will and that man has some amount of sovereignty over the events of this world, even football games.

I don't believe the word "sovereignty" means what you think it means.

Sovereignty means freedom from outside control (autonomy is a synonym).

God is sovereign. He is not controlled by man. He has a sovereign will (an autonomous will).

This does not mean that God has to decree who will win a game. It also does not mean that men or human actions have no impact on future events (God is greater than man).

As we know, the Atlanta Braves is God's chosen team, but they do not always win. I doubt He cares about football.

 

[Dave G]

This is becoming of Calvinism, God picking His special and favorite.

Bestowing His favor upon one and saving them for an eternal relationship with Him and His Son, while justly reserving another for judgement and eternal punishment in the Lake of Fire?
It is His right, His privilege and His prerogative... and we as men have absolutely no say in the matter whatsoever, Charlie.

It is what God's word tells us:

"What shall we say then? [Is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 and that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?" ( Romans 9:14-24 ).

All of the saved are the recipients of His grace and mercy, and especially His favor.

That favor is a result of:
Grace, which is the Lord doing everything for us, and leaving nothing undone or Him relying on the "weakest link in the chain" ( us ), for example.

Not a result of:
Works, which would be Him leaving something up to fallen sinners to perform for Him ( thereby leading to a merit / reward system ).. and then using that to decide who to save.

God's grace towards us abases men ( as it should ), while works exalts men ( which He will not tolerate ), and feeds that pride which exists in every one of us... were it not for His giving us the new birth.

Read the passage again, my friend; It's not "Calvinism"...
It's the truth.


To all:
And the seriousness of the situation is definitely not something to joke about.

 

[Charlie24]

Bestowing His favor upon one and saving them for an eternal relationship with Him and His Son, while justly reserving another for judgement and eternal punishment in the Lake of Fire?
It is His right, His privilege and His prerogative... and we as men have absolutely no say in the matter whatsoever, Charlie.

It is what God's word tells us:

"What shall we say then? [Is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 and that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?" ( Romans 9:14-24 ).

All of the saved are the recipients of His grace and mercy, and especially His favor.

That favor is a result of:
Grace, which is the Lord doing everything for us, and leaving nothing undone or Him relying on the "weakest link in the chain" ( us ), for example.

Not a result of:
Works, which would be Him leaving something up to fallen sinners to perform for Him ( thereby leading to a merit / reward system ).. and then using that to decide who to save.

God's grace towards us abases men ( as it should ), while works exalts men ( which He will not tolerate ), and feeds that pride which exists in every one of us... were it not for His giving us the new birth.

Read the passage again, my friend; It's not "Calvinism"...
It's the truth.


To all:
And the seriousness of the situation is definitely not something to joke about.

You're denying the Scripture in your misguided interpretation of God, Dave G.

But you already know that!

God desires and has even commanded all men everywhere to repent and come to the knowledge of truth.

That has not happened and will not happen. We see they are cast into the Lake of Fire for eternity.

Why must you deny God's Word and make God someone He is not?

 

[Charlie24]

You're denying the Scripture in your misguided interpretation of God, Dave G.

But you already know that!

God desires and has even commanded all men everywhere to repent and come to the knowledge of truth.

That has not happened and will not happen. We see they are cast into the Lake of Fire for eternity.

Why must you deny God's Word and make God someone He is not?

This nonsense of God being the cause of all that takes place with man, making man a robot in His hands will be judged by the Almighty.

There will be no excuse for this heresy before the Throne of God.

All that God has spoken will come to pass, all of it, you can rest assured.

God never said he elected a certain group to be saved, while electing the rest to perish, that is heresy.

 

[Dave G]

You're denying the Scripture in your misguided interpretation of God, Dave G.

No Charlie, I'm not.
In fact, I'm believing exactly what is written on the page.

Why must you deny God's Word and make God someone He is not?

How is it that you do not see the words?
If I'm wrong, then please demonstrate to me, by reading it back line by line and giving me your understanding of it, where I've made any mistakes in how I'm reading it.

You can do that, can you not?
If you know what Romans 9 says, line by line and verse by verse, then I would appreciate any correction that you're willing to give.

 

[Dave G]

This nonsense of God being the cause of all that takes place with man, making man a robot in His hands will be judged by the Almighty.

I'm not a "Calvinist" or "Refomed", Charlie, so I don't believe that God is the cause of everything.
But I do indeed believe that He is aware of everything, knows everything, causes some things and allows others to take their course.

At the end of it all,
Everything comes to pass with Him in complete control of His creation and their doings... with the ability to change, halt, or allow anything that he wishes.

There will be no excuse for this heresy before the Throne of God.

All that God has spoken will come to pass, all of it, you can rest assured.

I agree, Charlie... there will be no excuse for those who teach and preach any other Gospel than what Paul himself preached;
And I do rest assured that all of His purposes will be accomplished...

Each and every one of them.

In the meantime, what does God's word say that we're to do with someone who is a heretic?

 

[Dave G]

God never said he elected a certain group to be saved, while electing the rest to perish, that is heresy.

I gave you the passage that details exactly that, yet it seems to me that you're not able to understand it.

Again, if you think that I'm in error, then please show me how I am in error, by taking the passage that I quoted and explaining to me, line by line, what the words do say...
Because without that correction, I'm simply going to keep using it in a manner that you call "heresy".

I can't help how I see the words on the page, Charlie..
That is where I'm getting my information from.

 

[Charlie24]

I gave you the passage that details exactly that, yet it seems to me that you're not able to understand it.
Again, if you think that I'm in error, then please show me how I am in error, by taking the passage that I quoted and explaining to me, line by line, what the words do say...

Because without that correction, I'm simply going to keep using it in a manner that you call "heresy".

I can't help how I see the words on the page, Charlie..
That is where I'm getting my information from.

It's very simple, Dave G, you are denying and ignoring that God desires all men everywhere to be saved.

Then you give your theory of a God who chose who will be saved and who will not.

That's double predestination in which the Catholic Church rightly declared heresy in Calvin's day.

 

[Dave G]

It's very simple, Dave G, you are denying and ignoring that God desires all men everywhere to be saved.

You're not able to explain it line by line, are you?

Then you give your theory of a God who chose who will be saved and who will not.

That's double predestination in which the Catholic Church rightly declared heresy in Calvin's day.

It's not a "theory" if it's based on the words of the text, Charlie.
Again, please "exegete" the passage line by line, and show me how I'm reading it incorrectly.

Any help you can give me in where I'm misunderstanding the passage itself, would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Charlie24]

You're not able to explain it line by line, are you?

It's not a "theory" if it's based on the words of the text, Charlie.
Again, please "exegete" the passage line by line, and show me how I'm reading it incorrectly.

Any help you can give me in where I'm misunderstanding the passage itself, would be greatly appreciated.

It's you, Dave G, that must one day stand before Christ and explain your denying God's salvation for "whosoever will."

 

[Dave G]

It's you, Dave G, that must one day stand before Christ and explain your denying God's salvation for "whosoever will."

Are you able to do as I asked, or are you telling me that it cannot be done, sir?
If you're correct, then you should be able to tell me what Romans 9 says, in your own words and line by line ( "verse" by "verse" ).

I could also use your assistance with Ephesians 1:1-23, as that seems to be another place where we differ greatly in our understanding.
If you would please offer it, line by line ( explaining to me what the words do say ), I would appreciate it very much.

Thanks in advance and with respect, Charlie.

 

[Charlie24]

Are you able to do as I asked, or are you telling me that it cannot be done, sir?

I've already done that on Eph. 1 in another thread and I know you've read it.

Why don't you explain why you choose to ignore and deny the existence of 1 Tim. 2:4-6,

"Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time."

 

[Dave G]

I've already done that on Eph. 1 in another thread and I know you've read it.

Yes I did, and I disagreed with it because the words tell me something different than they tell you.
Now, would you be so kind as to do it for all of Romans 9?

I think we can wait until then for me to answer 1 Timothy 2, if it's all the same to you.

 

[Charlie24]

I've already done that on Eph. 1 in another thread and I know you've read it.

Why don't you explain why you choose to ignore and deny the existence of 1 Tim. 2:4-6,

"Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time."

Or maybe you would rather explain why you deny this?

Acts 17:30-31

"And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

"Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead."

I would like to know from you, Dave G, why God commands all men everywhere to repent, but according to you they have no say in the matter.