Songs With Doctrinal Errors

[Ben1445]

I was reading on a different thread and this statement was made.

Some old hymns contain doctrinal error or encourage false images like Mansion Over The Hilltop making people think we are going to get a building like Tara.

1) What songs and hymns do we sing that are written in such a way as to be doctrinally incorrect? Or, in what way is the imagery forced upon the listener to understand it incorrectly?

2) What Scripture do you think shows the error in the song or hymn?

I think it helpful to understand how a commonly sung hymn or song is inaccurate and depending on the error or perception of error, explain, edit, or erase the song in or from use.
Any time songs and references to Scripture in them seem to be unclear, I like to explain them and make them relevant to the singer.

 

[Ben1445]

Some old hymns contain doctrinal error or encourage false images like Mansion Over The Hilltop making people think we are going to get a building like Tara.

Without looking up the history of the song, I would guess that Scripture that helped to frame the words of the song include these:

John 14:1-3
Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

1 Corinthians 2:9
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

Hebrews 11:13-16
These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Rev. 21:10
And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
21:21
And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
21:27
And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

In light of these references, I would ask,

1) What about the words of the song are not scriptural or push false imagery? (I never imagined Tara) (over the hilltop is just a reference to being heaven bound and not a plantation on the other side of the hill. It seems to be permissible under poetic license and should be explained to children who seem to create new meanings to words by their limited understanding)

 

[JonC]

I was reading on a different thread and this statement was made.



1) What songs and hymns do we sing that are written in such a way as to be doctrinally incorrect? Or, in what way is the imagery forced upon the listener to understand it incorrectly?

2) What Scripture do you think shows the error in the song or hymn?

I think it helpful to understand how a commonly sung hymn or song is inaccurate and depending on the error or perception of error, explain, edit, or erase the song in or from use.
Any time songs and references to Scripture in them seem to be unclear, I like to explain them and make them relevant to the singer.

I think we need to remember that many of these songs use imagery and symbolism.

Do we really cling to "an old rugged cross"? No, the actual wood was insignificant. Do we "exchange" this old piece of wood for a crown? No. We do not even exchange what Jesus did for a crown.


I do not know the hymn @OLD SARGE was doeaking of, but what you posted of it is not unbiblical.

Eden is referred to as God's holy mount. God's "abode" is referred to repeatedly as His mountain and a couple of times as a mansion (by Jesus in His parables and explaining we have a place there).

People often read hymns and songs as they read Scripture, missing the message entirely.

Think of the song Miles wrote in 1912 about Mary's encounter with Jesus in John 20 (In the Garden). How many have criticized that song as completely unbiblical, never actually grasping the message.

 

[Jerome]

many of these songs use imagery and symbolism.
Do we really cling to "an old rugged cross"? No...,Do we "exchange" this old piece of wood for a crown? No."

But what really gets in their craw, is this: "...for a world of lost sinners was slain".

I've seen 'Reformed Baptists' muttering when we got to the part "..and opened the life-gate that all may go in" of "To God Be the Glory".

 

[JonC]

But what really gets in their craw, is this: "...for a world of lost sinners was slain".

I've seen 'Reformed Baptists' muttering when we got to the part "..and opened the life-gate that all may go in" of "To God Be the Glory".

Lol....yes, "Reformed Baptists" need to edit their hymnal.

 

[OLD SARGE]

Without looking up the history of the song, I would guess that Scripture that helped to frame the words of the song include these:

John 14:1-3
Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

1 Corinthians 2:9
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

Hebrews 11:13-16
These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Rev. 21:10
And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
21:21
And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
21:27
And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

In light of these references, I would ask,

1) What about the words of the song are not scriptural or push false imagery? (I never imagined Tara) (over the hilltop is just a reference to being heaven bound and not a plantation on the other side of the hill. It seems to be permissible under poetic license and should be explained to children who seem to create new meanings to words by their limited understanding)

But what is a mansion? Actual Jewish tradition was to build a room onto the Father's house for the son and his bride. A manse was a parsonage attached to the church building. We turned it into the Tara concept. I have been scoffed and reported to the pastor because I did not believe we were getting a huge mansion. I will be happy if I get a pup tent in the south 40. In my Father's house there are many rooms. Indeed, if you look at the New Jerusalem it sounds more like a high rise apt complex than antebellum mansions hovering next to each other. BTW, I believe the creators of Star Trek used it to create the Borg hive. We will only need a small "prayer closet" where we can get alone with God and He calls us by our new name on the white stone. Anything else would be superfluous rooms that were only needed for mortals.

Yes, over the hilltop is anthropomorphic imagery and yet the New Jerusalem will be in orbit, so to speak, so above every hilltop. Only one street from what Rev 22:2 indicates, not streets. Minor error, but an error nonetheless. Songs get by with a lot, but they should be accurate and truthful instead of sentimental like "Momma's teaching angels how to sing" or "When you feel a little prayer wheel turning." Are we Christian or Tibetan monks?

 

[Ben1445]

But what is a mansion? Actual Jewish tradition was to build a room onto the Father's house for the son and his bride. A manse was a parsonage attached to the church building. We turned it into the Tara concept. I have been scoffed and reported to the pastor because I did not believe we were getting a huge mansion. I will be happy if I get a pup tent in the south 40. In my Father's house there are many rooms. Indeed, if you look at the New Jerusalem it sounds more like a high rise apt complex than antebellum mansions hovering next to each other. BTW, I believe the creators of Star Trek used it to create the Borg hive. We will only need a small "prayer closet" where we can get alone with God and He calls us by our new name on the white stone. Anything else would be superfluous rooms that were only needed for mortals.

Yes, over the hilltop is anthropomorphic imagery and yet the New Jerusalem will be in orbit, so to speak, so above every hilltop. Only one street from what Rev 22:2 indicates, not streets. Minor error, but an error nonetheless. Songs get by with a lot, but they should be accurate and truthful instead of sentimental like "Momma's teaching angels how to sing" or "When you feel a little prayer wheel turning." Are we Christian or Tibetan monks?

Fair points.
The word mansion is a biblical word. What the definition and use of the word is can be up for discussion. But by definition, the word being used in the Bible, it is not an unbiblical word.
Given the way the rest of New Jerusalem is described, I don’t have any doubt that the inside is at least as nice as the outside. I don’t think it is necessary to relegate ourselves to the broom closet. I also think that Tara can hardly compare given that we are told that eye has not seen, ear heard, or even begun to be thought of by any man, what God has prepared for us. That said, I have no doubt that mansion is a good word. We won’t be able to come up with anything that comes close to what God has prepared for us. God can make a small room dwarf a skyscraper.

 

[Salty]

Isn't "The King is Coming" a wonderful song?

Is this song based on Biblical teaching?

 

[Ben1445]

Isn't "The King is Coming" a wonderful song?

Is this song based on Biblical teaching?

It depends on what stage of preterism you’re subscribed to.
So no.

 

[Salty]

It depends on what stage of preterism you’re subscribed to.
So no.

Whether its Pre or post trib - the market place will not be empty.

 

[Ben1445]

Whether its Pre or post trib - the market place will not be empty.

I was reading it like second coming. No matter which way you look at it it’s all garbled.