Present that Scripture.
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Would you support a Just War from the Bible then?
- Thread starter JesusFan
- Start date
Present that Scripture.
Again, present the Scripture.
Romans 13
King James Version
1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
It is God that places the soldier in his role. Swords are not often used but for one thing. This tells us that God executes vengeance on evil with killing force. There is no Scripture that is going to deny this very simple statement in God's Word.
First, you are blurring the issue to further your beliefs. This responds to a post directly speaking of soldiers. Secondly, I would like for you to interpret what "As far as we are able" means. Third, God's principles didn't all of a sudden change from one view to another when the New Testament was written: He is still very concerned about lawlessness, and meting out punishment for it. This is true even in the lives of born-again believers. It is possible for the sins of Christians to warrant the "death penalty," and that enforced by God Himself:
1 Corinthians 11:28-30
King James Version
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
God hasn't changed the principles which define His nature since the first century, either, by the way.
So who is more likely to keep peace? A drug member infiltrating the LA police force, or a Christian? A first-person shooter game enthusiast who wants to live "the real thing," or a Christian?
Keeping in mind the differences between cultures then and cultures now (something we fail to consider to our disadvantage when we look at these issues), think about the construction: then, the governing body deciding the fate of others were what we might call "religious" men. While they fell down on the job, I can't help but think that, if God saw fit to have men under a mandate to adhere to His principles holding the power of life and death, that might not be such a bad guideline for us in this Age and withing the varied cultures of today.
Only someone who understands these principles can rightly mediate the difference between killing and murder. Criminals don't.
So none of the soldiers that fought in our wars were Christians? No Christian has ever had to kill an enemy soldier in his role as a soldier?
That's not a belief.
It would be fantastic if all wars could be fought as this one out of millions fought it.
But it's not reality. Just as suggesting that the soldiers who served who were Christians violated God's principles concerning war.
Not trying to be ugly, but this is an atheist argument that has no justification. The false basis is the implication that the atrocities carried out by this group were performed by Christians. Either that, or the assumption on your part that everyone that claims to be a Christian actually is, or that they have an understanding of the principles underlying Christianity (that would be the Old Testament principles of the Law).
And that you would lay that at the feet of Christ by implying Christianity is responsible for those atrocities is sad. This shows your personal agenda outweighs your devotion to truth. Not that I am saying there were no Christians within the Catholic Church during those times (and we should be thankful to God for that as well), but, like you, they distorted the teachings of Scripture to pursue their own agendas.
You should not represent Christianity as the perpetrator of evil. Just a little friendly advice.
On the contrary, just as putting to death those who broke laws an entire culture was based on (which was the expressed will of God for His people) was meant to preserve the populace as a whole, even so, putting to death those who violate the laws of a country founded on those principles—is a necessity.
And I'm not trying to imply the death penalty will end the evils that require its implementation, but it will certainly benefit the families of the murderer's victims it doesn't allow to happen.
Have you no concern for them?
Ahem, no truth in that view. The problem is, your concern seems to be for the murderers, not their victims. You might want to give that some thought.
You can't pray for the man that sneaks into your house in the middle of the night and kills you and your family. You aren't turning the cheek, friend, you're turning a blind eye.
What that looks like is soldiers and police officers placing their lives on the line for the sake of law-abiding citizens. I'm sorry that was not for you, as a soldier and a police officer. Maybe watch a few episodes of PD Live to see how some officers do it. See what kind of people they are dealing with today. There are a lot of great people who are obviously Christians doing phenomenal work in our police forces. Showing grace and mercy to hurting people. Showing compassion for people involved in illegal activities. And keeping the general population safe, because they made a decision to be part of the solution.
It's time professing Christians started putting Bible study ahead of their agendas, because when they speak in public they not only expose themselves as promoting ungodly ideals and furtherance of agendas, they do a disservice to Christ and Christianity by, as you have in this post, vilifying the Christianity they profess to be a part of.
Apparently.
For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces
The premier's policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal fromwww.timesofisrael.com
Most of the time, Israeli policy was to treat the Palestinian Authority as a burden and Hamas as an asset.
Did you read the article?
For years, the various governments led by Benjamin Netanyahu took an approach that divided power between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank — bringing Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to his knees while making moves that propped up the Hamas terror group.
The idea was to prevent Abbas — or anyone else in the Palestinian Authority’s West Bank government — from advancing toward the establishment of a Palestinian state.
Is that such an unreasonable goal? Perhaps you should also mention U.S. involvement with terrorist groups, or groups that evolved into terrorist groups, and how that blew up in our faces.
Do you really not see a problem with a hostile people setting up camp next door? Maybe Russia's presence in Cuba might have been a good idea, after all.
Hamas was also included in discussions about increasing the number of work permits Israel granted to Gazan laborers, which kept money flowing into Gaza, meaning food for families and the ability to purchase basic products.
Where is Hamas on that front, now?
Since Netanyahu returned to power in January 2023, the number of work permits has soared to nearly 20,000.
Additionally, since 2014, Netanyahu-led governments have practically turned a blind eye to the incendiary balloons and rocket fire from Gaza.
Correct me if I am wrong, but don't both of these indicate an attempt to work their difference out?
How many incendiary balloons and rockets would we allow lobbed into our nation?
It is untrue that there are criminals and terrorists that cannot be reasoned with?
Would mind explaining how you would deal with people like that?
I'd like to address that. Let's start here:
1 Timothy 1:7-11
King James Version
7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
It seems Paul is an advocate of Law as an ongoing principle in the lives of Christians.
What were you thinking Paul meant?
last time I checked, its ONLY the Muslim nations that had openly declared war upon Israel, and desired to have them driven back into the sea and be exterminated
Both Nazi Germany and Japan culture of that time saw themselves as being superior people, and wanted to rid the earth of "underivable and those who would dilute their perfect humanity lines"
We all saw har much being nice and talking with Hitler got right before he invaded poland
Did we not seek out for the living Nazi leadership after WW II to be chanrged with war crimes and to have some executed. was that all wrong?
I'm not sure who har is and why that is relevant to my post.
Again, irrelevant. The post you have responded to addresses Christians in relation the principles of Law given us by God.
I applaud the efforts of those who tracked these criminals down.
meant to say how, as those who advocate full pacifism have to take into account how an evil person such as a Hitler would view those actions of not coming into conflict against him, as he thought and guess the allies would be weak and not stand up to him, and for awhile only really Great Britain did
We agree on this issue being discussed on this thread
Yes
Wouldn't the Palestinian Authority be the ones to support, if peace were the goal? Indications, rather, are for a desire to go to war.
Netanyahu has always opposed a Palestinian state, and numerous times has expressed his belief in the 'Greater Israel' doctrine, and Iran is always 5 minutes away from a bomb.
He propped up Hamas just for the purpose of something like Oct 7. Israeli patrols were stood down on the morning of the attack, and there was a significant delay in a full-scale IDF response, blamed mostly on 'intelligence failures'...intelligence failures my lilly white butt.
Add to that his dismal approval ratings among Israelis primarily for Oct 7 and his handling of the situation, and this admonition from "The Rebbe."
And this:
Netanyahu says he’s on a ‘historic and spiritual mission,’ also feels a connection to vision of Greater Israel
So, yes, apparently 'Greater Israel' is the real goal.
Hence my question: is that a just war?