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The Words 'sin nature' in Scripture
- Thread starter Dave...
- Start date
Hey JF
I quote these passages often in other topics, but they apply here. When we are placed in Christ, and born again, there is a spiritual death of sorts. Should we call the power of sin the old man? Is the flesh sinful by nature? Does it become that?
So when the Old man is put to death, it's speaking of....? Emphasis on verse 6.
Romans 6:3-11 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. For he who has died has been freed from sin. Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
Colossians 2:10-14 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power. In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
Gal. 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
JF
Would you think it strange that God never mentions a sin nature in Genesis three, or did He?
14 "So the Lord God said to the serpent: "Because you have done this,..."
IF Adam did not have in the Fall now a sin nature, why are we born with one now?
Hey Dave.Hey Jon
It's late, but I'll take the chance that I still can communicate without it sounding scatter brained.
Then would you equate our being spiritually dead, what we inherited from Adam, the flesh, as simply a separation from God? In other words, we are evil because of a disconnect to God, Who alone is good, rather than an inherent evil inside us that separates us from God. Or Both? Could one be legal and the other moral?
Basically, I think that God cannot deny Himself, so we could not be made inherently good, like Him. The next best thing is that we were created/made dependent on God as the source of good. Adam and Eve had that being with God. Plus they were protected from sin in ignorance of good and evil. Adam falls, that's a separation from God, Who alone is good. The vine, Who without we can do nothing, for what do we have that we did not receive? The gifts, anything good that comes from us for the Church, is the fruit of the Spirit. So, inheriting a separation from that source of good, God alone, is inheriting a separation from being able to be plugged into God, Who alone is good. Jesus bridges the gap, allowing us to be plugged in again. So, that's the separation, that we call sin nature. What say you?
Dave
I see it as both we inherit Adam's state of bring "naurual man" (spiritually dead) and that Adam represented our being "natural man" (spiritually dead). Paul makes a very good case of representative substitution with his use of the "first Adam" which was natural and the "last Adam" which became a life giving Spirit- the natural coming first and then the spiritual. Adam represents natural mam and Jesus represents men "born of the Spirit"
I view Jesus as the reconciliation of God and man. It is in Him we are reconciled.
I have not told you what I believe. I gave you the passages in Genesis and 1 Corinthians and you cried "God forbid!!:.
You are not actually arguing with me yet.
If you want to know what I believe then provide the passages you are referencing and we can discuss them.
I already tried to do that. I provided passages and instead of you dealing with them you denied thrm. We never even got to either of our views. You just flat out said that God lied.
Three problems.
First, God gifts churches with teachers and Paul warns them about their teachings as they will be held to a higher standard. You guys are not talking about God given teachers. You are talking about teaching yourself by reading books. God equipped churches by gifting their members so that they are complete.
Second, as those dead men you think Hod gifted your church body as teachers are actually chosen by you, you are the author of your own faith. You pick writings that "tickle your ear", and just like @Zaatar71 you pick out of thise writings what to believe.
Third problem is you mistake your position about the Bible. I provided a few passages to you and you simply said that they were wrong. I was wanting to discuss those passages and you acted like I just made them up. We never discussed God's Word because you denied His Word was correct.
JonC, how do you see Gal. 5:16-17 ?
"This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would."
Where is this lust of flesh located and what is it?
And why is this lust of the flesh contrary to the Spirit that we have such a hard time following the Spirit.
I see the lusts of the flesh as those desires of the flesh that are opposed to the Spirit. We have desires of the flesh. This is normal. But when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it has run its course, brings forth death.
Jesus desired not to die (a desire of the flesh) but He submitted this will tp the will of the Father.
Men may see a beautiful woman, and this may be a desire. That "second glance" would be lust snd once conceived it births sin.
Adam desired the fruit (it appealed to the desires of the flesh).
I see the lusts of the flesh as the temptations of the flesh.
What do you see as the lusts of the flesh?
Well, Brother, I know how it goes with us.
Since there is no verse in Scripture that says, Hey, here is the sin nature that dwells in man's flesh from the fall, I think it best to let it go.
Nah. You get a pass.
I was just curious.
Well there's lots of Scripture from Paul in Romans that ties into this, and when you put it all together I see the lust of the flesh warring against the Spirit in the classical sense of good and evil.
I know you don't believe that 2 natures can exist in man, but I believe they do.
Paul teaches us that the sin of the flesh can be controlled by walking in the Spirit and sin (the sin) will not have dominion over us.
He didn't say the urge to sin would leave us, but that it would not control us, showing that it's ever present in us.
Paul said that when he would something good, evil was present in him.
I've heard several preachers say this is the sin nature, and God doesn't take it away at our spiritual rebirth, God leaves it as a safety check for us to know that we are not walking with Him when this sinful nature raises its ugly head in us.
? I do believe that two natures coexist in man. Paul spoke of this struggle between the flesh and the spirit.
When God became man He had these two natures, but yelled to the will 9f the Spitoy ("if it be Your will, let this cup pass. But Your will be done").
If man, when born of the Spirit, did not have to struggle with the desires of the flesh then we would not need to take up our cross, to daily put to death the flesh. It would have been a one and done type of thing.
I do believe that when we are glorified with the glory of Chriat, when we are perfected, that we will not have these two competing natures.
If we are honest with ourselves we know there is something that dwells in us that desires to lead us into evil.
The Scripture doesn't say plainly that it's a nature, and if someone chooses not to call it that then that's fine.
But we all need to bear in mind that something is there and it will take us where we don't want to go.
Yep. If we were in the Garden we would have done the same as Adam.
There's not a single one of us who wouldn't have done the same as Adam.
We agree there for sure, Brother.