Flaws of Calvinism

[Zaatar71]

Jesus Christ is the enabler, for "What is impossible with man is possible with God" Luke 18:27, but Jesus doesn't force people into his kingdom. For over and again, he portrays it as an invitation, an invitation that many refuse, per Luke 14:18 etc. You however wrongly pretend the invitation was never made to vast numbers of people.

Many people have lived and died in Sin who never heard of Jesus. There are many people alive right now ,who will die without hearing of Jesus!

Over and again, Jesus refutes you, e.g. Matt 22:14 etc.

Not at all!

Why then does God not enable some to come to God?

For His good pleasure. he has planned and purposed it before the world was 2tim.1:9

Just because of their insatiable preference for evil: "the people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil." John 3:19.

Yes, they still do. That is why God elected a multitude to be saved!

"Loving darkness" in the sense of a preference for working iniquity is the one sin that will cause God to prohibit access to the kingdom of God.

All men are born in that condition!

I take it that Ps 14 is referring to two different types of people, the apostates, the workers of inquity, and the lost sheep, whose love has grown cold and who have turned away under the influence of the workers of inquity, but who are still regarded as God's people.

The apostle Paul did not take it the way you do, when he quotes it in Romans 3 ,speaking of all men, Jew or gentile!

It is imperative to properly distinguish the lost sheep from the sheep not of Christ's fold (habitual workers of iniquity) in order to grasp biblical teaching in context.

Correct! Not all men are Christs sheep!

 

[cjab]

Many people have lived and died in Sin who never heard of Jesus. There are many people alive right now ,who will die without hearing of Jesus!

Irrelevant diversion.

Not at all!

You don't accept the words of Christ, then.

For His good pleasure. he has planned and purposed it before the world was 2tim.1:9

It says God planned and purposed salvation, not damnation.

Yes, they still do. That is why God elected a multitude to be saved!

All men are born in that condition!

Pure Manichaeism, and opposed by Christ (Matthew 19:14, Mark 10:14).

I think you have a real problem in rejecting the heretical tenets of Manichaeism.

The apostle Paul did not take it the way you do, when he quotes it in Romans 3 ,speaking of all men, Jew or gentile!

Both the lost sheep and the damned sheep are alike admitted to be under the power of sin (to different degrees). Paul is emphasizing sins's pervasiveness in the passages that he quotes. Paul concedes that he was the "worst of sinners" so didn't accept everyone ranked the same in terms of sin's control.

Even Jesus admitted that he "didn't come to call the righteous," That there were righteous in Israel is seen in that at least three prophets are referred to as living in Jesus's day. And three wise men who offered him gifts also. There is nothing in Rom 3 that says that Paul didn't understand it my way.

I find you're not given to proving what you say to be strictly true.

 

[cjab]

Ive given it, and others im sure have given it, but you show no understanding of the scripture.

It's true sometimes "all" doesn't mean literally all, where all is circumscribed by context, but in many places all is not circumscribed by context. Then, it seems, we can always rely on Calvinists to come in and impose limitations consistent with Calvinism, but which limitations comprise additions to the biblical text e.g. 1 John 2:2 is case in point. This is one reason why Calvinism comprises an alternative theology to biblical theology.

 

[Van]

Now passive voice verbs are irrelevant, how convenient

He did not limit the observation to Acts 13:48! The use of passive verbs elsewhere is scripture is irrelevant to its use in Acts 13:48. The jews rejected what was received passively in verse 46 and some of the Gentiles accepted what was received passively in verse 48?

All they have is off the shelf arguments of fallacy.

 

[Zaatar71]

Irrelevant diversion.



You don't accept the words of Christ, then.


It says God planned and purposed salvation, not damnation.


Pure Manichaeism, and opposed by Christ (Matthew 19:14, Mark 10:14).

I think you have a real problem in rejecting the heretical tenets of Manichaeism.


Both the lost sheep and the damned sheep are alike admitted to be under the power of sin (to different degrees). Paul is emphasizing sins's pervasiveness in the passages that he quotes. Paul concedes that he was the "worst of sinners" so didn't accept everyone ranked the same in terms of sin's control.

Even Jesus admitted that he "didn't come to call the righteous," That there were righteous in Israel is seen in that at least three prophets are referred to as living in Jesus's day. And three wise men who offered him gifts also. There is nothing in Rom 3 that says that Paul didn't understand it my way.

I find you're not given to proving what you say to be strictly true.

Irrelevant diversion.



You don't accept the words of Christ, then.


It says God planned and purposed salvation, not damnation.


Pure Manichaeism, and opposed by Christ (Matthew 19:14, Mark 10:14).

I think you have a real problem in rejecting the heretical tenets of Manichaeism.


Both the lost sheep and the damned sheep are alike admitted to be under the power of sin (to different degrees). Paul is emphasizing sins's pervasiveness in the passages that he quotes. Paul concedes that he was the "worst of sinners" so didn't accept everyone ranked the same in terms of sin's control.

Even Jesus admitted that he "didn't come to call the righteous," That there were righteous in Israel is seen in that at least three prophets are referred to as living in Jesus's day. And three wise men who offered him gifts also. There is nothing in Rom 3 that says that Paul didn't understand it my way.

I find you're not given to proving what you say to be strictly true.

You are not addressing the issue at all. You offer the same lame excuses, ie, Manichaeism,, lol No one quoted any gnostic teaching.
You have not demonstrated any link. You assert many things in an effort to avoid the links offered. That's fine as far as it goes. You are welcome to avoid truth! That is your self will choice!

 

[Van]

You have to be ordained or appointed to eternal life to believe. So you have to be one of Christs Sheep to believe

Yet another false claim, with not a shred of truth behind it. You have to believe to become one of Christ's sheep.

 

[Zaatar71]

Yet another false claim, with not a shred of truth behind it. You have to believe to become one of Christ's sheep.

This is an unbiblical idea. Have you read Ezk.34? God has His own sheep...the Elect. Some are lost, He is going to find everyone of them...Case closed!

 

[Van]

You are not qualified in this area, at all.

Yet another change of subject false claim. Now this poster wants to discuss my qualifications, rather than defend the false claims of Calvinism.
Note that AOC attacked the qualifications of Charlie Kirk, rather than address why "Hey fascist - Catch" was found inscribed on one of the casings.
Denial, deflection and deceit are the weapons of those seeking to hide the truth.

 

[Brightfame52]

It's true sometimes "all" doesn't mean literally all, where all is circumscribed by context, but in many places all is not circumscribed by context. Then, it seems, we can always rely on Calvinists to come in and impose limitations consistent with Calvinism, but which limitations comprise additions to the biblical text e.g. 1 John 2:2 is case in point. This is one reason why Calvinism comprises an alternative theology to biblical theology.

So who does the whole world refer to according to 1 Jn 2:2

 

[Van]

This is an unbiblical idea. Have you read Ezk.34? God has His own sheep...the Elect. Some are lost, He is going to find everyone of them...Case closed!

Yet another denial of scripture. How do individuals become My Sheep? They are given to Him by God the Father based on crediting their faith as righteousness. Have you read Romans Chapter 4? Did Jesus lay down His life for "His sheep" or for "the sheep?" Why not His sheep if they actually already belonged to Him? You have no answer. Have never heard of the fields white for harvest? Or the sheep that are not of His flock, that will become His flock?

 

[Van]

So who does the whole world refer to according to 1 Jn 2:2

Fallen humanity, Jews and Gentiles. God desires all people to be saved, thus Christ provided the means of reconciliation for the whole of humanity. This is not rocket science.

 

[Zaatar71]

Yet another change of subject false claim. Now this poster wants to discuss my qualifications, rather than defend the false claims of Calvinism.
Note that AOC attacked the qualifications of Charlie Kirk, rather than address why "Hey fascist - Catch" was found inscribed on one of the casings.
Denial, deflection and deceit are the weapons of those seeking to hide the truth.

The truth does not need to be defended/ Truth is like a Lion who can defend itself.

 

[Brightfame52]

Fallen humanity, Jews and Gentiles. God desires all people to be saved, thus Christ provided the means of reconciliation for the whole of humanity. This is not rocket science.

The elect are fallen humanity of jews and gentiles aren't they ?

Christ provided the means of reconciliation for the whole of humanity.

False His death actually reconciled to God them the Son died for Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

were reconciled is a καταλλάσσω its a aorist tense PASSIVE verb, the death of Christ effected reconciliation in the past, its a done deal, nothing about it was provided as a means. Thats false teaching, and it strips the Death of Christ of its efficacy.

 

[Brightfame52]

Yet another denial of scripture. How do individuals become My Sheep?

By election

 

[Zaatar71]

Yet another denial of scripture. How do individuals become My Sheep?
They are given to Him by God the Father based on crediting their faith as righteousness. Have you read Romans Chapter 4? Did Jesus lay down His life for "His sheep" or for "the sheep?" Why not His sheep if they actually already belonged to Him? You have no answer. Have never heard of the fields white for harvest? Or the sheep that are not of His flock, that will become His flock?

Sheep are sheep by Divine appointment...ELECTION

THEY HAVE NOTHING TO BE CREDITED, THEY DO NOT HAVE FAITH, Until it is granted to them.

Goats, do not become sheep.

 

[Van]

The truth does not need to be defended/ Truth is like a Lion who can defend itself.

Deflection,

 

[Van]

Sheep are sheep by Divine appointment...ELECTION

THEY HAVE NOTHING TO BE CREDITED, THEY DO NOT HAVE FAITH, Until it is granted to them.

Goats, do not become sheep.

Pure fiction, the separation of the sheep from the goats occurs after physical death, not before creation.

Folks, note the absurd claim, God first gives a person his perfect faith, then credits the person's faith as righteousness. They just keep posting this sort of bunk endlessly.

 

[Zaatar71]

Pure fiction, the separation of the sheep from the goats occurs after physical death, not before creation.

Folks, note the absurd claim, God first gives a person his perfect faith, then credits the person's faith as righteousness. They just keep posting this sort of bunk endlessly.

This is an example of what is known as Vanology, lol...How does it work you ask? Easy;
1 ]truth is posted,
2]Van looks at it
3] Rejects light, selects darkness instead
4] Offers a pseudo truth claim, totally bogus

 

[Van]

The elect are fallen humanity of jews and gentiles aren't they ?



False His death actually reconciled to God them the Son died for Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

were reconciled is a καταλλάσσω its a aorist tense PASSIVE verb, the death of Christ effected reconciliation in the past, its a done deal, nothing about it was provided as a means. Thats false teaching, and it strips the Death of Christ of its efficacy.

Good Grief, the whole of humanity are not elect! On and on folks, one falsehood after another.

Next, God is reconciling humanity to Himself, one sinner at a time. Scripture does not say God has reconciled all those to be saved.

Romans 5:10 says Paul and his audience had been reconciled, not future believers had been reconciled. One falsehood after another. Here the "we" is expanded to include all the elect, which is to say, Calvinism is once again read into the text. But anyone who can read knows the verse say "when we were enemies" which must be ignored because they were supposed elected (chosen) before creation and therefore were never enemies. The nonsense is non-stop folks.

 

[Van]

This is an example of what is known as Vanology, lol...How does it work you ask? Easy;
1 ]truth is posted,
2]Van looks at it
3] Rejects light, selects darkness instead
4] Offers a pseudo truth claim, totally bogus

Again, addressing me and running like crazy from the topic.

The separation of the goats and sheep occurs after physical death. The claim it occurred before creation is nonsense.

God does not credit His own faith, He credits the faith of the individual as righteousness. (his faith - Romans 4:5)

By the numbers:

​

1) God provides the revelation in the form of the gospel​

2) The person's heart has not been hardened, thus they hear and respond to the draw of the gospel​

3) God, who knows their heart either rejects or accepts the person's faith and if He accepts, credits the person's faith as righteousness.​

4) On the basis of his or her credited faith, God transfers the person spiritually into Christ, where they undergo the washing of regeneration.​

5) Once established (born anew) in Christ they are sealed in Christ with the Holy Spirit forever.​

These are the truths being denied by Calvinism.